Why I love SA... but why it's nonetheless probably not good for me

You’re such a stud muffin!!!

^I was about to say that
BHF maybe you need to join the witness protection program

LOL, yeah that's me. Stud muffin. If I spend any more money on these bitches, I'm gonna need a new SA account, except this time I'll be a sugar baby. I'll get some women to pay me so that I can keep paying other women.

Just let them know, don't change up anything just yet as you are traveling for work but would like to continue to see them whenever possible, usually works like a charm, some stick around and catch the drift others leave, but hey you can't please everybody. Good luck sir!

The primary purpose of SA is to help people set up sugar Relationships. Does it get used for other stuff? Sure. You and some of the women you met are proof of that.

The ones that are still contacting you are the ones who are looking for a "real SD" and thought you might be it, but instead they'll be on some SB forum soon complaining of having been "pumped and dumped".

The "escorting" genie is out of the SA bottle and I don't see how it will ever be put back. People who want to use SA to find actual sugar relationships will just have to learn to deal with it.

but instead they'll be on some SB forum soon complaining of having been "pumped and dumped".

==========
+1
I was going to post exactly the same thing.

Ya, this is a Tragedy of the Commons thing. I don't blame you B.Ho, if I wanted what you wanted, I'd be doing exactly the same thing. As it is, you're the reason so many legit SBs are annoyed with everyone LOL... although, actually, you have to wonder whether sometimes it doesn't work in my favor, the girls might be annoyed that they keep running into johns, and so may appreciate it more when they run into an SD. I dunno, maybe you should just keep it up!

In one paragraph you're complaining about the girls who seem to be getting attached and won't leave you alone, and then in the next you're mourning the fact that some of them are going to move on and forget all about you. LOL.

@Subraman "although, actually, you have to wonder whether sometimes it doesn't work in my favor"

I know you are right here. I'm certain that part of why my current SR is going so well is that SB does not want to go back to the string of johns she was encountering, or that her SB friends are complaining about.

I agree with you about not blaming BHF. If I wanted random variety I'd be doing the same thing he, Juice, and Doces all had luck with instead of seeing traditional escorts like I used to, because there are obviously women on SA willing to play that game.

@BHF "I'll get some women to pay me so that I can keep paying other women."

Sugar mamas are a myth. Dick is free.

However, if you're willing to be "gay for pay" you might be able to find a willing sugar daddy.

I can't really say that I'm scamming any of them. I haven't really led any of them to believe that I would ever pay them a monthly allowance and "take them away from all this." In fact, there was only one girl who said that her goal is an allowance, and that she would only do PPM in the beginning. In her words, she "would be disappointed if we never move beyond PPM" because that's not what she's looking for. And you know what? I was honest with her: we met for coffee, and I told her that I would probably never move beyond PPM, and I even gave her $100 for her time. We never had sex. That was pretty awkward, but at least I didn't feel like I was taking advantage of anyone.

To be honest, even though I'm still paying per meeting, the only complaints I have heard are about other SDs who may be offering much more money but are nonetheless aggressive, creepy, or off-putting. Hookers are used to dealing with creeps - but these girls apparently are not. And now that I've had the chance to meet some SA girls in person, I tend to doubt that they're career prosties. Of the 8 girls I've met in person, only two of them even give off the slightest professional sex-worker vibe. And even then, it was still very different from a typical escort. Real orgasms, real day-jobs, really clean apartments, everything seemed real. More like a real date than a standard p4p appointment.

@Burlington: You're under 40 and in finance, so I'm not surprised you get a lot of attention.

If you're sleeping with seven girls in two weeks, you're either getting some pros or pissing off some girls looking for an ongoing arrangement. Some of these girls are texting you about the next date, so that means there was some kind of misunderstanding. You may not be scamming them in the traditional sense, but I'm sure understand what we're getting at. If you want a dozen sex partners per month, you're probably better off with traditional escorts.

Also wonder if you're using condoms? Even if you do, condoms only provide 30% protection against genital herpes, and you *will* pick something up if you continue with that lifestyle.

Why not find some cute girl you have something in common with and have an ongoing fling? Maybe someone who reads passages of Atlas Shrugs instead of traditional foreplay? THere's someone out there for everyone.

*Shrugged

@BHF "More like a real date than a standard p4p appointment."

Exactly. So what they are looking for is more like a real BF, but with actual financial support during the dating phase, instead of the potential for future financial support if the dating phase happens to lead to a long term relationship (living together, marriage, etc).

In addition, if the financial support is right amount, they will be willing to expand the criteria by which they select the men they will date. But, most would still just rather date a small number of guys (I hear 2-3 is the ideal number), which means they need the guys to be committed PPM regulars or willing to switch to some form of allowance (weekly in my current case).

If these girls keep encountering guys that just want to have sex with them once and never come back or set up something steady one of two things will happen: 1) they will start to feel like an escort and get out of the bowl, or 2) they will start thinking "if the guys are going to treat me like an escort, then I'm gonna treat them like a john" and then the things you liked (real orgasms, feels like a real date, meeting at her place instead of you having to pay for a hotel) will disappear.

If you here almost every time you are not like the guys I meet on here chances are you are acting the right way and you are going to benefit from being legit.

The only thing I would say in regards to your recent spree is the same thing I have cautioned guys regardless if they are using escorts, strippers, or SA girls--only use money you don't need and can afford to give away without impacting your lifestyle.

I lived by that rule my entire life with one notable exception and it was a reminder and lesson well learned.

The reason I repeat with my one SB is she's that good and very low maintenance, and attractive. I haven't been to a club in her area for months now---and she has never said anything but she did close her account. I still see other women when I am in DC or Philadelphia for work but I am upfront with all of them.

"hear" (damn auto correct)

I’m glad you are enjoying SA. Don’t lead the girls on - and keep reminding yourself that it’s still p4p. The downside (in my view) is that the girls aren’t pros - and there’s a chance they might become attached. That’s not good.

When I read that a girl stopped taking other guys - or stopped her account - due to enjoying you - that was a bit of a red flag. Since these are civilians - they may not be emotionally detached - and that can be messy to break off.

-->"I can't really say that I'm scamming any of them. I haven't really led any of them to believe that I would ever pay them a monthly allowance and "take them away from all this." "

B.Ho, again with no criticism intended, just clarification: whether or not you are paying monthly allowance or "taking them away from all this" has nothing to do with why we've said you're more like a john than an SD. A john's relationship with the girls is just like he had an escort -- there's nothing ongoing, he hires her (and probably lots of other girls, too) whenever he feels like it, the relationship is entirely sex-for-money transactional and there's nothing else to it. You're using SA as an alternative to backpage. By contrast,Whether it's PPM or monthly, you can still be an SD; whether you "take her away from all this" or just get her extra spending money, you can still be an SD.

In BH's defense sometimes the more in need a girl is on SA the more they want to believe they have found a white knight.......so their hope translates to text messages and signals they want you to be a source of income, comfort, and father figure all rolled into one.

There are also women on SA that are very subtle manipulators just as there are in the civilian world.

Sometimes you can pick up on it in the ad/profile by the wording, often if not it comes across on the first or second meeting and then you have a decision to make.

I am very up front and have been from day one when I started using SA.

I start with a per meeting arrangement and if I feel comfortable enough it moves to a monthly amount or I let them know they can call me if something does come up ( depending on the women it will) This is my own level of comfort but if I am seeing someone for 3 months and everything is going as I hope and we seem to have a good understanding I start to relax a bit.

Warren: I would maintain B.Ho doesn't need any defense; he's doing exactly what any of us would do, if we were looking for the experience he is. And like it or not, there are lots of pros on SA who are specifically looking for B.Ho type johns, I get contacted by pros constantly so I know there's a ton out there. To the extent I might raise an eyebrow at all, perhaps it's at this:

-->"they don't seem to understand that this might only be a one-and-done kind of thing. Not a day goes by that I don't get a text message from at least one of them (and sometimes all of them) asking when we can hang out again".

IF you purposely come off like an SD, then a potential SB has every reason to assume she's dealing with a guy who is an SD and looking for an arrangement; the fact that these girls are re-contacting him asking to hang again might mean he's presenting himself as an SD rather than a john, and now they're confused as to why he's split, and just taking advantage of newer girls who don't know how to screen their potentials, which I do think is a bit unethical. If a guy presents himself as an SD and not a john, then potential SBs *should* assume that he's not after a one-and-done thing but taking steps to pursue an arrangement. Of course, you might incidentally end up with a one-and-done: I once had a decent meet and greet, then moved on to the next meeting w/ sex, and the sex was meh so I moved on, but my intentions all along were that if we had a great time, I might spin her up to an arrangement.

Just back from a lunch meet and greet. Went well.

At one point she said “just so you know I’m Bi, not sure how you feel about that. But I have a girlfriend that might be down, if you ever want a threesome”

:D

Yeah...so I might have to make that happen.

I don't care what BHF said to them. If they took his money for sex, then they have no right to feel conned, misled, etc. They gave up the right to indignation or outrage the moment that they agreed to open their legs for $$$ The fact that some of them might be new and/or naive and not fully grasp that reality yet is their problem, not his.

I have done a version of this with OTC girls who are on the fence about taking money for sex. I have a whole well polished spiel about how a "friend" at another club recently retired and I eventually hope to find a new one. The story includes the possibility of frequent visits ITC and OTC and maybe even travel and is told so naturally and quietly that it just rings with earthy honesty. When I'm in road clubs, this story is often coupled with one about how I'll be in town often due to a new client, which is almost always a gross exaggeration. And I don't feel an iota of regret, especially after I pay the girl a fair market rate for a little bit of her time and effort.

So go yee forth and enjoy BHO and don't listen to the panty waists who think that you should feel bad about paying a girl for sex. ;)

B-Ho: What you're feeling is a hang over from being the kid-in-candy-store. SB's are a few levels deeper into the rabbit hole transcending escorts, dancers, AMP's etc.. It is a whole new ballgame. It is fucking surreal to have access to those smoking hot university students that run outside of the normal whoring dynamic. It's mind blowing to think that the honey finishing up her masters degree in education from a wealthy family is willing to sugar but they sure as fuck are.

Like anything though, the honey's have a perception of what an SR will be (rich dude giving them 10k a month) and our perception (300 ppm). This causes frustration on both sides. Plus, oh man variety. You would think once we found one of these off grid honeys we would be happy. No, it just stokes our craving for more variety and our desire to see how deep this rabbit hole will go.

SR's are like finding a restaurant that serves a variety of finest tasting cuisines on earth. Problem is, we can never get satiated and the food is crazy expensive.

Do you like SA better than strip clubs?

I want women to dress to please. Rare that you find ones accustomed to such who do not have extensive strip club experience.

SJG

I appreciate the criticism, the defense, and the advice, guys. Here's a few quick responses:

@Lone_Wolf: I think you neatly encapsulated everything I'm feeling. I'm not sure if there's a solution to this "problem," but this is basically how I feel about it.

@Subraman: I'm just trying to come across as a decent guy who wants to help and fuck them. To be fair, I would like to eventually find just one or two girls and to see them regularly and exclusively. But I'm not sure about how I feel about putting someone on my monthly payroll.

@Warrenboy75 - I agree, this could become addictive for the unprepared monger. I'm trying to reel it in a little now, actually. And the girls definitely do say that they prefer my company to that of some other SDs they've encountered, so I suppose I'm doing it the right way, at least as far as politeness and decency are concerned.

@Cashman1234: Ha, yeah, this one girl I had already fucked, I lied to her and told her I'm worried that I might have the clap. Her response: I swear you can't make this up, but she said something like "don't worry baby, we'll figure this out together."

@RandomMember: I hear you. I have used condoms with all but one of the girls so far. It's totally irrational but I figured, since she has a master's degree in social work, what are the odds that she's sick? Totally irrational. Having said that, they have all kissed me, blown me without protection, and with at least five of them I'm basically licking every hole on their bodies. It finally caught up with me yesterday as I woke up with a bit of a cold, so I'm out of commission for a while now; I'll leave some of these PYTs for the rest of the Tri-State area. Anyway, so far, I have at least briefly discussed politics with five of the girls, and I was able to clearly determine the political ideologies of three of them: two hard-left Democrats and one moderate Republican. I don't mind political disagreements, honestly. Plus liberals basically won the Culture War and they've now thoroughly captured the hearts and minds of the younger generation, so it stands to reason that I'm going to encounter more liberals than anything else.

@san_jose_guy: Yeah, honestly, I totally prefer sugaring to clubbing now. There's less of the "hurry up and cum" type of nonsense that you often get from other types of sex workers. Plus most of the girls have clean apartments or houses, most of them are intelligent, and I actually believe them when they say that they like me (within reason of course). Btw, many of them will dress up for you if you approach it the right way. It isn't really my thing, but many of these chicks are completely submissive, and they are basically looking for 50 Shades of Grey

Interesting their BHO. I'm sure there are good ones in all the corners of P4P. But usually your best chance hooking up with a good one is via f2f first meetings. Now yes, the US Club FS-ITC is compromised. But you should only have to do that once, then you can be seeing her outside.

Strippers are usually the most visuals oriented.

Glad SA girls are working out well for you.

SJG

A big part of the appeal of strip clubs is the See - Want - Get power trip. You select the girl who floats your boat that night, and you can have her dressed and painted up exactly how you first spotted her.

Now true, you get that with her just once, after that you and she are in a 'relationship' and so you're better to be seeing her outside. But at least you get that King Herod the Great power trip once.

With something like SA or calling escort ads, or seeing semi-pro's, it will never be like that even once.

SJG