Generic Political Discourse Thread

Incoherent!

RINO - George W bush, Jeb Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, Dick Chaney, Mitch McConnell, etc.

I read that of all the living Republican former Presidents, V.P.s,, or nominees, the only Republican to endorse Trump in 2024 is Sarah Palin? Jeez, just read this list of GOP notables that disavow Trump for a second term.

en.wikipedia.org

I guess I've been a RINO for 40 years and didn't know it. Or maybe Orange man IS bad!

^ The condemnation of most of those men is a badge of honor. The Bushes are a dying light for good reason. The Cheneys are the same only more warmongering. McCain is dead. Romney's only constant political principle is self advancement. Ryan got steamrolled by Obama. McConnell appointed conservative justices so I admit I have a soft spot for him, but he's gone squish.

All of those care more about attending the right DC soirees than actually enacting conservative policy.

Is Trump an angel? No. He's an asshole, a narcissist, a loose cannon, can't help but punch down, and not even that effective.

But any "conservative" who would rather the farthest left Senator during her term get elected president, and the farthest left governor in his time elected VP, is a goddamned liar.

@Gammanu has the dynamics of most political conversations here down. Though the Puddy Tat has to admit he loves sharpening his claws on most of the libs here.

@ Puddy Tat, as a liberal, I have a question for you.

What is it specifically that you dislike about the Democrat agenda?

As a liberal, I can offer some type of response. Most of the problems conservatives have with liberal policies boil down to not realizing they have choices or that the problem requires a solution that isnt easily solved by ignoring it or more practical solutions.

@ggofv - I don't understand your last sentence, but it's a combination of economic illiteracy, creating strife among Americans, destroying the social fabric or shared values of the country, rolling back explicit constitutional rights under the premise of "safety," sacrificing strength abroad in favor of looking "nice."

Much more. Happy to clarify.

Bigoted conservatives have a problem with liberal policies because they run counter to their bigotry. Its that simple

^ "Liberal: lie, deny, and name-call"

So exactly what is the point of this post, seems to me that this is no different than CJKunts clickbait posts, and the OP is just trying to stir the pot with an obvious argument.

The political forum should be renamed the idiot containment zone. LOL.

^^ now where’s that like button.

Bacon!

Moderate Democrat: propose solutions to real problems that government can solve

Conservative: I don't want to pay for it because I got mine

MAGA: screams something about Mexicans and trans people

Conservative: tries to remind MAGA that while they are on the same side, there are plenty of conservative Mexicans and you need their votes

Far Left: somehow brings the current trendy cause into the discussion (currently: Gaza)

(Shouting max ensues between the far left and MAGA, nothing gets done and the Conservative wins because conservatives like the status quo and prefer for nothing to ever happen)

The comment thread has been like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fucking hilarious!

^^ I don’t know, it seems like 25 and JamesSD never followed along with your pretentious narrative to me.

Bacon!!

@ Puddy Tat, I will admit that last sentence turned into a run-on sentence.

Rewrite: Most of the problems conservatives have with liberal policies boil down to not realizing they have choices. Most of our current problems require practical solutions that aren't just "ignore it".

@ggofv - I think you have a good idea as to my problem with the Democratic agenda, without it.

On the contrary, our first policy should be "do no harm." The left acts like they're entitled to points for effort, an "at least we tried to do something." As if the point of politics is to feel good about yourself rather than do the right thing. Often the right thing is to leave the American people to their own ingenuity and resourcefulness, rather than a second government program to fix what the first government program caused.

It is the left (broadly speaking) that believes we can engineer a perfect society. Conservatives know better.

@ Puddy Tat. combination of economic illiteracy, creating strife among Americans, destroying the social fabric or shared values of the country, rolling back explicit constitutional rights under the premise of "safety," sacrificing strength abroad in favor of looking "nice."

Economic illiteracy: I assume you mean taxing businesses more so that they in turn tax citizens more. Why can't their be a reasonable limit on how much a business can tax despite government involvement. A 15% cap on price increases within 24 months of federal business tax on domestic corporations would be fair.

Creating Strife: This is entirely dependent on context. Are we referring to the Transgender Agenda, The Conservative Agenda, The Woke Politics, The Evangelical Politics, Project 2025 (or its toned down derivatives). The truth is that most people don't want to live under any of these.

Rolling back Constitution: I assume you mean 2nd Amendment. This could be a discussion by itself. Regulations would go a long way in keeping certain problems under control. However, even I will admit that there is little you can do against mass shooting. Typically the firearms involved were LEGALLY bought. Unless we want to put security guards at every school setting, we really don't have a solution.

Sacrifice strength aboard: This is based on whether you believe the US should have interventionist policy. The truth is Europe needs to rearm itself and meets its bare minimum defense spending. I think the US really shouldn't be involved in most foreign conflicts (that means Ukraine and Israel). The Evangelicals pushing supporting Israel has inevitably meant we have to continue supporting proxy wars in the Middle East with no tangible benefits to us. Ukraine is a money laundering operation. Isolationism, for at least 4 years, should be implemented. Israel won't fall. Ukraine was going to have to submit anyway.

@ggofv - wow, hide your straw men, you're on a killing spree! You're looking at the worst parts of the Republican agenda and pretending the rest doesn't exist.

Yeah, Trump's tariffs are stupid. But your embrace of price controls ("15% cap on price increases") is even dumber. Look at the USSR, rent control, shit, food and gas the 70s here to see the price controls equal shortages. Removing the price signal in the name of "fairness" heavily distorts the market. But the left would prefer everyone be equal in misery than unequal in prosperity. It should tell you something that Democrats are calming people by saying "don't worry, that won't pass anyways." Even they know how horrible it is.

Even more illiterate is a tax on unrealized capital gains. Even if you assume it will only ever hit the super-rich, that capital is going to fly the fuck out of this country so fast the wind will blow your hood back. And that's if the threshold doesn't creep down like every "tax on the rich" does.

That's the fundamental difference economically between the left and the right. The left thinks all wealth in the country is theirs to do as they please, on temporary loan to the private sector.

Creating Strife, I'm talking about who, for the last 15 years, has thrown the first punch in every battle of the culture wars. Conservatives lose these because they want to live and let live against the side that wants to encroach. The left didn't give a shit about trans anything until 10 years ago, why did Joe Biden now call it "the civil rights issue of the day?" Racial reparations were a fringe idea until recently, now Harris is on record supporting them...it wasn't the right that raised the idea that a group that never owned slaves owns a group that was never enslaved. Who is resegregating dorms and graduation ceremonies on campus? Not the right. Who is sowing distrust between genders, races, and sexual orientations? There is no equivalence here.

Rolling back the Constitution, I'm talking much more about the 1st amendment and the separation of powers than anything else. That's my far and away #1 issue of this election is freedom of speech. Joe Biden tried to create a censorship bureau and has outsourced censorship to outside agencies. Joe Biden is the one whose administration leaned on social media to censor viewpoints they didn't like. Harris and Walz are the ones saying freedom of speech is a "privilege" and doesn't extend to "hate speech" (which the Supreme Court disagrees with). Robert Reich, Dem thoughtleader, is calling to have Elon Musk arrested. I know saying freedom of speech is under threat gets snide comments from some of the libs here (as if censoring an obscure strip club message board is equivalent to a 2 billion user social network), but imagine Donald Trump in charge of a censorship bureau or defining "hate speech." (No, don't say Trump would do the same. He had 4 years and didn't do any of that shit.)

The other major issue within the Constitution is the separation of powers, particularly the attacks on the Supreme Court. If Dems pack the court (funny how the right amount of new justices is exactly the amount that would create a progressive majority!), what's to stop the next GOP administration from packing it more to restore the previous ideological balance? The left loved the Supreme Court for Roe and Obergefell, now that it has Dobbs it's overstepping its bounds???

Strength abroad, the proof is in the pudding. We have given billions to Iran and Hamas and look what happens, there's a proxy war. (Under Trump when the "evangelicals" would have had more say, the Middle East was, in the words of Biden's own National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, the quietest it's been in the last 20 years.) We let China surveil our military bases with spy balloons. We got fucking PANTSED in Afghanistan (that's when Biden's approval rating dropped below water and never recovered). Venezuela is literally emptying their jails to send them to America.

Look, you seem like a reasonable guy, and I appreciate you staying civil when a lot of people (on both sides) here are turning into jagoff trolls or whiny little bitches, but there isn't a single factual reason in anything you said (other than the Trump tariffs) to support the liberal agenda.

I sense that your calling yourself a liberal might be due to other factors. If that's what drives you, hey, if abortion up to the moment of birth trumps (lol) everything else on your list, go ahead and vote Democrat. If you believe tens of millions of unvetted immigrants including criminals and gangsters are worth being able to say we're "not racist," go ahead and vote Democrat. If you believe we should dismantle modern civilization to reduce global warming, go ahead and vote Democrat.

I'm just saying that if you value strength, rights (other than abortion), and a strong America, then "vote Red, or where's your head."