Child Labor

Uh, it's not self reliance to be supported by your kids.
Though I would except some if they were well off.

One can argue most if not all government programs create dependency to a large extent

Sure sounds like a great idea, most of you grumpy old fucks would be dead by now, and I’d have all the hot young strippers to myself;)

I hear you in theory mark and don't disagree. The sad reality in this country, however, is that kids with elderly parents are more likely to shove them in nursing homes than take them in themselves. It is a sad state of affairs when we put or older family members in places where they can wait to die, surrounded by strangers, rather than have them integrated into the family fabric at home, but that's where we are at now.

Actually social security was set at the age of 65 because they thought if you were 65 years old you were basically on death's doorstep and wouldn't have to be taken care of for much longer.

They considered you to be old in your 50s not really because people in their 50s were a lot more frail back then but because random diseases and other things managed to kill a lot of people off before then and because at 50, they thought you were starting to be near the end of your life.

But people today probably go through more "deterioration" before they die then people back then did. Back then you probably would've caught a disease and next thing you know you're dead in three days. Because of modern healthcare, you have to become much more physically and mentally weakened before nature manages to kill you.

We can thank modern technology for a lot of things but one of the biggest is literally being able to extend our lifespans quite a bit.

My brother got completely wiped out by Bernie Madoff and the 2008 finacial crises and 3 yrs of working part time following his layoff.
He was 60 at the time so unable to build much after that.

I still tease him about not properly planning. He should have known to have 12 kids so they could take care of him. What a retard.

If anyone watches the classic TV shows from the 1950s and 1960s, notice how older characters are portrayed. They’ll occasionally have someone in their 60s portrayed as confused and barely able to walk.

^ Meanwhile Dick Van Dyke is still spry and agile in his mid nineties

@Mark94

I do think our general health is a bit better now. It could be that people understand how some kind of regular exercise can keep you fit and healthy well into your 70s or 80s. We're also better aware of nutrition and diet and stuff like that. Take for example Tantia Bhil. An outlaw in India during the 19th century. He basically was a career criminal and he committed the vast majority of his crimes when he was in his late 40s and early 50s. In his early 50s, he was still able to run away from the police and live a life of crime. In the age he lived in, he was old, but he was still pretty physically healthy. The only reason he died was because the British hanged him, not because of natural causes.

Also keep in mind that John Adams was actually able to live to the age of 90 despite it being the 18th century. Almost nobody lived that long in the 18th century. When the Revolutionary War was first starting he was in his mid 60s. So already by the time the Revolutionary war was starting most people in his time would've been dead and he went on to become the president of the United States eventually.

There does seem to be a change in how people look at things not even that long ago. My dad says when he was 20 years old, he thought people at 50 years were old whereas I don't really think of people in their 50s as old yet. I just consider it middle aged.

It could be though that before, older people embraced the fact that they were old. Now, most old people really want to look, act, and feel as young as possible which could make them seem younger than somebody of a similar age would've in the past.

The point everyone is missing is that the traditional large, nuclear family is the foundation of western civilization and as it deterioratesand disappears, so does westeern civilization. My office is in a very poor neighborhood and there are a lot and I mean a real lot of old houses on vbery steep hills that contain anywhere from 3 - 12 apartments. Beautiful park at the top of the hill and back in the day these were all "single" family homes. Why so large? Mom,Dad, 8 kids, grannie, Uncle Pete and three boarders rto make ends meet. Now its mostly section 8. America in a nutshell. Growing up in the projects was different back then. No one at home during the day, because people worked. May have needed help with low income housing, but everyone worked. Monday afternoon there looks like Saturday night back in the day becauseeveryone is home collecting now.

People age better now. Diets change and people go to the doctor more. When I was 12, a 60 year old was old. Essentially waiting to lingerand then die. As I approach 62 I ski better and on much tougher terrain than 10, 20, 30 years. Today is a day of mourning though: I saw the first sign of crows feet. Cannot believe I am going to get wrinkles.

I had a great uncle who was literally the 7th son of a 7th son. Big, close family in a town of about 50,000. He could walk a block or two in any direction and meet a first cousin. And, they looked out for each other. Frequent family gatherings. Helping with employment. Helping them stay on the right life path. A lot of them became highly successful.

Compare that to today, with one or two children being raised by a single mother and no contact with their father, let alone uncles or cousins. It’s a different world.

>I’m not convinced that this reliance on government provided retirement is 100% positive. There is something to be said for self reliance.<

I can agree with that, but I still don’t want to go back 150 years to live that way, we live better now than ever, more people have better lives, and the quality of life Is better for most.

Stranger to me is how a collection of folks with better than average income, are so pessimistic about life in general.

America in 1869. That's a no for me dog

When I was a kid divorce was very rare and fodder for neighborhood gossip. The word gay was whispered. There were no social workers or restraining orders that i can remember.

The cops were only called for the most serious offenses and rarely for domestic disputes.

Things have changed so much the memories are like looking into a different dimension.

Yeah I agree with Skibum. Every study and point of comparison points to the nuclear family being better than non-traditional childbearing environments and yet progressives are still trying to break them up. It's probably my biggest issue with them.