Kissing in the front room.

Is that a black gal or white spinner type. There are many new gals in my last visit and few are willing to go the distance to earn easy money

She was black on the slim side. Definitely not Papi's type. :)

I think we should go into buying Follies, shadowcat. :)

Since you have SGJ on ignore, the next step (after she’s all horny from your front room makeout session, ofcourse) is to treat her to fiv, then you can take her home and sleep w her for free!

Well, Follies is definitely the place where you can get away with it with no worries.

Was even more surprised when a dancer at Oasis was giving me some light kisses a week or so ago. It's been years since dancers have been allowed to openly kiss customers on the floor there. (Not that it was open, but it's been taboo there so long most girls won't even try sneaking kisses.)

The girls at my favorite club will kiss you on the cheek in the open club area to entice you to get LDs in the back. My CF will lip kiss me in the open club area when we say goodbye to each other after my dance session with her, sometimes multiple pecks in a row and often times right in front of other dancers I have taken back or the guy who keeps track of the dances. I'm pretty sure she is doing it to mark me as her territory to the other dancers, as she is popular, but I don't think she has many (or any) regulars.

It’s pretty rare anywhere. Only had it happen once at Follies, several years back. It was another girl that said it was her first week. At first she was just touching noses which turned into a fairly full lip kiss. Surprised me enough that I looked around to see who had noticed ... which is pretty hilarious if you think about me being in Follies with all that can go on there.

Several years ago I got to Follies late in the afternoon and it was SRO, so I was leaning against the wall just taking in the scene. A guy was getting a wall dance right next to me from a young (and fully nude) black spinner, and I couldn't help but glance over her way. She saw me looking, smiled, and stopped what she was doing for a second. She leaned over and gave me a nice deep French kiss, then went back to her wall dance. Yes, we got acquainted later that day and had a little more fun. Ah, I'll never forget the day I met Diamond.

SJG never said anything about any of this being for free. But if that is your objective, it might be possible. Really, OTC, the money need not make that much difference either way.

But if the girls are in sufficient number, then they have to compete with each other. So even though in our local clubs it is strictly prohibited, sometimes the girls do initiate intense DFKing with a number of guys in succession. Its pretty clear that what they want is immediate OTC. They want the money, but it seems to have more emotional meaning for them then that.

And then the numerous accounts of TJ, and of the most extreme black dives, and then private testimonials about the mixed race dives where really it is hard to be in those places and not end up making out with a stripper.

Like I read in a general audience travel book, in Mexico they cannot understand our clubs. In their clubs, if they like a stripper, the first thing the guy will do is kiss her.

And our own local Latina's in the underground clubs, and being girls that do a lot of OTC, they also do a fair amount of ITC front room DFKing, even though it is supposedly prohibited. For them it is the most natural thing in the world.

Overall it is not that difficult to steer it that way. And in a place like San Francisco, that would be the norm, and front room, if it were not for Deja Vu and its very carefully designed 'Business Models'.

SJG

oh goodness. i love a nice kiss.

Some dancers may be down to kissing some custies they may be comfortable with, but they avoid it in the main room b/c other custies may also want/expect the same treatment

Kissing seems too personal for most strippers. I have one fave at Follies who gladly takes BBBJCIM but (BEFORE me being her first VIP of the day!!!) says she does not kiss because "I kiss my little girl with those lips".

In the front room? It's rare but it happens. Never a DFK though - usually just a peck on the lips. Occasionally it'll be a long, closed-mouth kiss to say goodnight before I walk out the door.

But of course things are very different in the backroom. In my experience, about 50-60% of dancers will initiate a DFK or LFK in the backroom. Other girls will not initiate it, but they will kiss me back if I kiss them first. All told, I would say about 3/4 of girls seem willing to kiss me. Not because I'm Don Juan - it's probably because I'm still relatively young. Rule of Thumb: strippers seem willing to kiss younger guys for free, while extras are available for a price to everyone (young and old alike). YMMV, but that's based on my experience and observation.

I guess I’ve progressed much farther - than SJG - as I usually bend dancers over the bar - and fuck them until completion.

Only if a dancer has a clean (cum free) mouth will I DFK her in the front room.

I enjoy watching my favorite dancer slowly walk back to the dressing room with my cum oozing out and glistening on her inner thighs...

^^^^^ No fooling. Front Room FS?

Front Room Makeout Session in OP
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=5486…

Also, it sounds like Deja Vu does not go well in the East side of the LA metro. I presume that that means San Gabriel Valley. Orange County too, like Anaheim?

Blocking the spread of the Deja Vu clip joint methodology is essential.

SJG

It’s not legal (in my state NJ) to charge for performing sex acts. So that FS was no charge! I was going to DFK her - as a treat for her. I know dancers love it when I DFK them as I fuck them!

I learn from reading the discussions -

^^^^ My experience is that when you can get a woman loosened up with DFKing, then she just lets go and the FS will be awesome. But you have to be open and honest with her, and treat her like a civilian. Her motivations need to go way beyond just the money for one round.

SJG

Front Room!
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3396…

Front Room Makeout
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3387…

Front Room DFKing
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3089…

Shadowcat
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3080…

BagBoyJames
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3083…

Kissing
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=3048…

Eric Clapton - Badge [Live in Hyde Park 1996]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frPQTiry…

It’s always about the money even if she enjoys it and in love with you.

This thread is starting to get funny AF!!

Love the SJG and leading into his system Cashman.

I understand your “system” - and it’s effective. However, when I’m fucking a dancer over the bar, she will be aching for my tongue in her throat! I know how wet she’s getting - and I know she wants more of my cock and tongue deep inside of her!

We should look for more clubs where you can bend a dancer over the bar and fuck her.

We used to have one underground front room FS place. Usually not done over the bar, but it could have been.

SJG

Yardbirds Mr. Your A Better Man Than I - Heart Full Of Soul live (NOT OFFICIAL RELEASE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QcTgPyI…

Spirit Summoning Procedures & Advise - Ceremonial Magick 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px39VpND…

BREAKING NEWS !!! You hear it first here.

Shadowcat buys Follies, plans to tear it down after building the shopping center across the street into a MegaFollies, bigger than Tootsies. Free dances for all to celebrate the grand opening !! To celebrate (If you believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale too. :)

How is it that you have the women signed on for these 'free dances'?

SJG

If you are so wise figure it out quickly, oh mighty OZ. LOL

I feel generous tonight, act now to pick up a square mile of Nevada for the low, low price of $496,000,098. TONIGHT ONLY !!

Those dancers willingly give it up to me for nothing! I talk to them in the front room. I start deeply into their eyes - and they begin to fall for me. I then DFK them for a lengthy time. They are begging for me to use them - but they won’t accept payment and they insist on being fucked in the front room - as they want the others to see how much they want me!

It’s fucking amazing! The bartenders aren’t very happy with the closeness of our fucking - to their bar - but some have asked if they could get the same treatment - as they see first hand how much the dancers love it!

SJG’s system has worked wonders for my clubbing!

And Cashman, if you had experiences with women not mediated by P4P, you would know that you can get the women who work in strip clubs to open up. I have never said anything about no money, not ITC, and not necessarily OTC either. Its just that the money becomes just a show of respect and care, rather than trying to induce them into doing anything they would not otherwise be perfectly happy to do.

SJG

Cashman1234 is strong in the farce (<- not a typo).

^ farce is not a typo

@gm "says she does not kiss because "I kiss my little girl with those lips"."

So she will kiss her little girl with lips that have been on your dick and may have had your cum on them, but not that have touched your lips?

I just LOVE stripper logic. LOL

SirLDAlot - exactly! May the farce be with you... lol!

@Cashman1234 Just beware the dark side of the farce. Darth SJG is consumed with it. It powers his rage against lap dances.

(OMFG he actually thinks you are telling the truth...SMH.)

Thanks for the warning SirLDAlot. I’ve got a very good grip on reality.

But, if I start to sound serious about front room DFK- kick me! And keep kicking me until I snap out of it.

^ Front room DFK is a chump's game. I will kick you hard if you get serious about it.

But worse than this is telling yourself the money you pay a stripper is just to show "respect and care" for her. That's just a chump's defense mechanism to avoid facing the fact that he's a chump that has to pay for a woman's affections. Extreme dark side of the farce.

Well said. It might not be a popular thing to say - but strip clubs offer a pure form of capitalism. Guys have needs - they come to the club to have their needs/demand met - for a price.

Dancers need money - and have hot bodies/supply.

The negotiating sets a price - based on the needs of both customer and dancer. Money is exchanged and services are provided.

There is an emotional aspect - as the customer gets aroused and horny - based on the facade created by the dancer. The emotional component of the dancers mind is how much she needs the money.

^ But if you fall for SS (or AMP whore hustles) like SJG has, you'll convince yourself that she wants DFK for personal and emotional reasons regardless of the money. But LOL unless you truly get DFK and/or FS for free with the same stripper (or AMP whore) that you've always paid, you can't really claim that she would "otherwise be perfectly happy" to do it all without the money. SJG is a complete idiot to assume otherwise.

Being open and honest with a stripper includes being open and honest about the capital side of the relationship. LOL SJG claims to be "open and honest" with a stripper in order to "loosen her up" but yet he tells himself the lie that the interaction (primarily DFK) isn't about the money. He's not even being honest with himself in this regard.

In my experience, when you first take care of and establish the business side of a stripper relationship, only then you can explore things like DFK, mileage, extras, etc with her beyond that. The business always comes first. I have never once (nor wanted) DFK with my ATF DS but yet she will flirt with me, tease my dick constantly, let me massage and cuddle with her, and also share her personal life and photos with me in the front room (...basically act completely like my civilian GF...). She is also open to OTC if and when I decide I want it too. She doesn't do this because I fucking DFKed her to loosen her up. She does this because she trusts me, because I'm a nice guy and honest with her, and because she knows I'm going to get dances and tip her on a regular basis. This is pretty much the same for all PLs. To think otherwise, like SJG does, is to be consumed with the dark side of the farce.

Well said. It’s obvious to veteran clubbers (what strippers want). However, with the farcical world in certain folks imagination, the facade becomes reality. It’s dangerous to live in the farce, as it changes the truth in other places.

The strip club is fun when I’m inside the club. That’s where the farce lives.

My ATF DS and a couple of past CFs/ATFs have randomly kissed me on the cheek during our goodbyes in the front room after dances/VIP. It's always nice when it happens but it's not something that makes or breaks me having a good time.

Call me old fashioned, but kissing/DFK is something intimate and what I would want in a relationship IRL with a woman that I love (i.e. my wife) or at the very least a woman that I want an emotional relationship with. I think a PL that wants and needs it as the lynchpin for his overall relationship with a stripper (or AMP whore) is seeking to fulfill his own emotional needs that he cannot fulfill elsewhere, no different than fulfilling a sexual need. He's simply paying for an emotional fantasy fulfillment in addition to a sexual one.

That’s a good point. The requirement of DFK in a strip club, is a bit uncomfortable for me. I’m not interested in having a GFE relationship with a stripper.

Also, a front room DFK requirement seems to be a desperate attempt to show others your relationship with the dancer. It’s like showing off your desperation. That’s what it would seem to me.

I had a dancer DFK my cock the other morning. That was in a filthy back room - which is just where I wanted it...

How prevalent is front room DFK anyhow? SJG blathers on and on about it like it is commonplace but yet he doesn't even go to strip clubs anymore.

I've been to strip clubs in New York City, Albuquerque, San Francisco, Sacramento, Portland, Phoenix, Cleveland, and Boston and not once have I ever witnessed a front room DFK session between a customer and a stripper. I've seen strippers DFK each other on stage but never with customers.

What say all you PLs that, unlike SJG, go to strip clubs IRL? Do you see front room DFK in the front room at all? If so, where and how frequent? I'm talking full on making out here like SJG describes. Not just pecks.

It's well documented that some girls in some strip clubs will DFK in the front room sometimes. I've seen and experienced such in San Francisco, in our local clubs, and in our underground clubs. Also some girls will communicate a willingness by pressing forehead to forehead. Girls in DV SF clubs who have said the line, "I don't kiss", have been demonstratively reversing themselves very soon after.

Now in San Francisco, at its best, I would say that you could go there and expect it, if you treat the girl right, and if you just get her softened up and then kiss her.

Today, with DV, I do not know. Their main business model is against this. But in their 4x no alcohol unbranded clubs? And with Darlings being black, and New Century being very large and usually with a large number of blacks?

I have seen and had explained to me by dancers in DV clubs that they pay off the bouncers to go over the limits, but only when the big boss is not there. So in such a place, probably the "I don't kiss" line is not really binding on the girls.

In our underground circuit, if you let the core group of Latinas handle it their way, then it would be one round of GFE-FS after another, and also lining the guys up as regulars for OTC in their homes. Like that pretty much in the one place where they were doing Front Room FS. They seem to see kissing is as just good sexual etiquette.

The obvious is true, you don't want to commit to the back room, to the money, or to any fixed time interval, until this makeout session is already underway. Before that it is just preliminary money plus words to show good will.

But if you get the girl to extend herself this way, then of course best to keep seeing her.

And then of TJ, we have numerous accounts, Dr. F's most compelling, one girl after another jumping onto his lap, and shoving her tongue into his mouth. All without asking permission. I don't know why he didn't arriba with them.

And then accounts that at BT and LC, even more tongue.

And then of Playboy Bar, the girls being even more aggressive and giving you no choice at all.

And then of black dives, the girl jumping on to your lap, and then licking your neck and nibbling at your ear. I take this as defying you to start making out with her.

And then communications from TUSCLer's that in the mixed race dives, all the girls do it that way.

Think about it, if there are no real rules, and if the girls are in competition to get the back room FS action, that is obviously one of the most effective strategies. It cuts the competition right out. It also can give the girl what most sex workers seem to want, the chance to decide who they session with and who they don't.

And Cashman, if they don't have girls you want to be making out with and waking up in the mornings at the strip clubs near you, that's too bad.

I believe that at the places where you can bend a girl over the bar, that probably you could choreograph it a bit differently and spend time getting to know her and making out with her first. And no, I don't mean for free and I would not recommend trying to do it for free.

Most of all, girls are very very sensitive as to whether a guy is treating her like a prostitute, or as he would any other woman. It makes all the difference. My first time in a strip club, trying to engage with a girl, I first got, "Sorry I don't go out with customers". But then once she realized she had read me wrong, she became apologetic. And then the next night I come home from work to find her voice on my answering machine.

SJG

^^ @SLD, I posted this note in a recent review of an SF Bay Area club, and I'm copying it here:

"And speaking of San Jose, I'm confirming once again that what San Jose Guy preaches – front room DFK makeout sessions – they simply do not occur, not in San Jose, not in San Francisco, and not anywhere I've seen in SF Bay Area. After reading SJG's front room makeout session mantra posts I thought to myself, geez that sounds great, I can't believe I've been missing that – I kept my eyes peeled for that in multiple clubs afterward and I'm telling you it simply does not exist in the strip clubs here."

@DeclineToState I've also been to the same exact clubs in San Francisco and San Jose as SJG has, and yes, to confirm, he's full of shit regarding DFK with strippers. Full of stripper shit to be exact.

@SJG posted -> "...My first time in a strip club, trying to engage with a girl, I first got, "Sorry I don't go out with customers". But then once she realized she had read me wrong, she became apologetic. And then the next night I come home from work to find her voice on my answering machine.

SJG"

^ It's painfully obvious that the answering machine message was the end of that encounter. I like how you couldn't elaborate that she actually went out with you afterwards.

Poser!

To address your point - I make sure the dancers are compensated for being bent over the bar and fucked. It’s not always monetary compensation, as that’s not what they all desire. Once I’ve gotten to know a dancer, I know her tastes, and then I know what currency works best for her.

It’s still a challenge to DFK a dancer when she’s bent over the bar, but it can be done effectively. By pulling a girl back - so she arches her back while being penetrated - it actually assists in putting more pressure on my cock - and it tugs her pussy lips apart - and it exposes her clit quite well!

I strongly recommend that position. It can provide for an intense orgasm. However, it’s very dangerous for a dancer in heels - as her legs can become very shaky as she erupts in multiple orgasms...

^ Tell him you're his father.

DeclineToState,

San Francisco is not what it once was, and that can be explained in 1 word, well two words, Deja Vu.

But never the less, I've had girls explain to me, "I don't kiss" and about how it is a rule, "actually the women's rule", and not to much further along and they are demonstrably reversing themselves.

I know this, on RubMaps they review AMPs, and the guys who write the reviews are not the guys who know how to get along with the girls. For one thing, the girls don't like to be reviewed. I would never write about them.

For another, these guys are lying naked face down on the table trying to offer the girl money for sex. How stupid!

They do that while I'm on my feet, still fully clothed, with my arms around the girl I have selected, smooth talking her, and soon making out with her.

She will get money. I'm not trying to economize. But the choreography and the quality of results is completely different.

And then many of the girls are seeing guys regularly in their own homes. These are not the guys who write reviews.

So it could well be that the guys who treat the girls in a civilian way and 'take care of them', are not the ones giving detailed reviews of their encounters with them.

Look about 6 of my posts up for a list of links to threads detailing front room makeout sessions, and explaining that booths and backrooms are not even considered until this front room makeout sessions is occurring.

I wish blackstripclubs.net was still up.

If there are no rules, then girls will have to compete for the back room action. One of the most effective ways to do this is DFKing. Some girls wait for the guy to kiss them. Some don't wait.

Sometimes when clubs are slated for closure, no one is interested in enforcing any rules. So we have had girls DFKing anyone who gives her $1 from stage.

Sometimes a girl wants to line up immediate OTC. Maybe it is just based on her knowing what bouncers are there, and her also being generous with them. So we have had girls coming over to any guy who gives her $1 and then climbing up and lying down on the bar and DFKing him, and doing an extremely good job of it.

And Cashman, yes most girls do like being fucked from behind. I think it is the entry angle and the g-spot massage, and just the sheer animality of it. But they still like f2f and other positions too.

SJG

Led Zeppelin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beK6ChN5…

It's hot when it happens, but the facts are: In current strip clubs in SF Bay Area (not in the ancient history of pre-DV SF clubs), if it happens at all it happens in the closed VIP rooms, not out in the open and not in VIP chairs.

Well, you see the problem with that, you have had to commit to the time and to the session fee.

Fortunately not every where is like Deja Vu dominated San Francisco. The accounts of US dives are overwhelming.

Deja Vu doesn't seem to understand why I dislike them. In San Francisco keeping up an appearance of propriety in the front room is not necessary to keep LE at bay.

SJG

Here's a "real" post from SJG attempting to get DFK and more from an AMP whore:

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

End result is nothing. He didn't continue to see her regularly like he claims. He got a few attempts at DFK but that is all.

He seems to convolute his AMP whore epic failures as supporting his claims about strippers that DFK with him. It's embellishment at best.

@DeclineToState even back in the 90s there was no commonplace DFK in any strip club like SJG states. It just doesn't happen in the front room (but we all know this with the exception of one idiot.)

Ignore button back on for SJG. I had reversed Ignore to see what he might have written here, but have now returned to Ignore-World

Front Room DFKing never really common, to my view. Except for pre-DV San Francisco. But I mean you have to apply some charm and some balls, and by words and tone of voice get a girl softened up, and then just kiss her. Often no problem at all.

In our underground circuit, sometimes it has been semi-common, mostly because of the Latina culture and because in those venues most all of the girls are committed OTC providers.

But for now, not necessary to worry about bay area strip clubs. Not that good. Look to the rest of the country, and the written accounts of front room makeout sessions are numerous.

SJG

R.E.M - Ignoreland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N52iZhPu…

^^^^^ ignoring is probably why you don't see strip club DFKing, and why you don't see that if you treat a girl as a civilian, then probably she is open for anything.

SJG

^ In terms of DFK, the rest of the country is no different than the Bay Area before or after DV. You may want to ride your bike out of state and get some actual strip club experience at strip clubs across the country. It will change your perspective. You've taken experiences that you had with a stripper in SF back in the 80s and also with AMP whores a few years ago and made them completely false universal "truths" about strip clubs today.

Go out and get a real clue about DFK in a strip club front room.

Poser!

@SJG posted -> "^^^^^ ignoring is probably why you don't see strip club DFKing, and why you don't see that if you treat a girl as a civilian, then probably she is open for anything.

SJG"

^ All he said was that he was putting you on ignore. This has nothing to do with ignoring DFK and how to treat a stripper like a civilian.

You make straw man arguments.

I like pointing them out.

Hey, there are situations where you can just walk up to a girl, take her in your arms, maybe tell her your name, and then DFK her.

I can personally attest to the truth in this. Fortune goes the bold.

Now yes, these are specialized situations. But so too are strip clubs.

SJG