BBBJ and HJ STD Risks

28 comments

• samsung1

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  13 years ago

  thanks for this article...but now I feel like I should go out and get tested for every STD/penile cancer possible!
• Rod8432

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  13 years ago

  I appreciate the depth of these comments. I need however, to better embed them into a real-world risk assessment. We make decisions everyday whether to participate in activities based on our understanding/perception of risk, whether accurate or not. For example, I drove my car all last year, even though there was a one in 65,000 chance I'd die a horrific death. Does my seatbelt make me safe? Well, safer, but not 100%. Do condoms protect against AIDS - well fairly well, but are there instances where they didn't? Probably. Do BBBJs carry more of an STD risk than HJs - yes, but how much? Are PLs keeling over in the streets because they got an HJ and perhaps a quick lick while in the VIP? It's my understanding that a man in good health (i.e., without a compromised immune system due to drug use, congenital issues, etc.) and without lesions and open cuts on his penis, could get BBBJs all day long and just about never catch AIDs, let alone most other STDs. Same thing for kissing and cunnilingus. If you're gay and/or a drug user receiving massive anal trauma though group/repeated sex with an infected partner, then there's perhaps a different story, where again, proper condom use seems to do the trick. Again, it comes down to realistic risk, and how do they stack up with all the other risks we know are out there, but we participate in activities anyway. In other words, the safest course of action would be to stay a monk in your house and never go anywhere. Whoops - take that back. Noxious fumes and Radon will still get you...
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Sorry, curiousgeorge but you are the one spreading misinformation. Here's what an actual MD, and top STD researcher has to say: [view link] So don't worry STDs from HJs! Now to address some more misinformation in your post, it certainly is possible for a woman to have cervical cancer but to clear the virus. In fact HPV is almost always cleared, and in the vast majority of cases there no symptoms whatsoever. If she had cancer but is testing negative on PAP smears for a couple years, ask any real doctor and they will tell you not to worry about it (some doctors might even go as low as 6 months on you.) While it's possible to get penile cancer from HPV it is very rare. 800 cases? Out of 150 million men? Come on. And do you know why the vaccine is not indicated in men over 26? It's precisely because by the time you've reached that age you've almost certainly already been exposed to the virus anyway, and even if you did get it your body is almost certain to clear it on its own. The medical field (who are much smarter than you) has determined that the benefit for the cost is just not there. As for warts, well over 90% of time you won't get them even if exposed to the virus, and then, even if you do, you know what usually happens? They just go away on their own. If they don't they can usually be removed by your doctor. It would really be nice if you read up on things before posting your misinformation here.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  samsung1: There are no FDA approved tests for HPV in men. It would be possible to develop one, but it would not make much sense in terms of cost/benefit. Over 85% of anyone who has sex is going to get HPV anyway, and then clear it. Also the risks to men are low, so it's not determined to be cost effective. Rod8432: Your ideas about the safety of BBBJs are pure speculation. HIV is rare, but still possible, and the bacterial STDs are very transmissible. HSV-1 is well known to be spreadable via kissing.
• emmett

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  13 years ago

  curiousgeorgefun: Thanks for the article. This article states the HJ risk of STD in general as basically zero: [view link]. Is this guy just wrong?
• kingcripple

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  13 years ago

  i believe the risk of HIV is almost nonexistant for both HJ & BBBJ. and personally i have never heard of anyone getting anything from HJ. maybe if the giver had a cut on their hand and the reciepiant had something and got on the hand. maybe but i doubt it ver seriously
• potheadpl

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  13 years ago

  The dentist in Florida was a fucking nutjob who intentionally injected his patients with HIV tainted blood. He'd made statements like "Nobody's going to care about HIV until virgins and grandmothers get it." So, he infected a teenaged girl and an old lady. I suspect he was tampering with the anaesthetic carpules.
• Rod8432

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  13 years ago

  Dougster - Yes, I agree that HSV-1, AIDS, and possibly other infections can theoretically come from BBJs, and probably from CBJs, should there be a compromised condom and/or spittle dribbling down the shaft onto unprotected and compromised skin. These unfortunately become navel-staring theoretical exercises that have little meaning to me. What I've never seen, and perhaps I should do a little more due diligence here, is what's my 'real' risk, and what's the best way to embed that into my day-to-day, decision-making world. I guess the real way to put that would be, should I change my SC/FKK/AMP habits due to any new information or misconceptions I have? I could ask the same question about eating at restaurants, living in the city, tanning on the beach, flying in airplanes, and working in tall office towers. I have a hunch (again, to be researched which I'll provide here) the statistical risks associated with BBBJs/HJs are way lower than excitable media reports would have us believe. And even when we do know there are risks, we seldom stop a behavior. We instead apply a cautionary device - we wash our fruits and vegetables, salve our hands with Purell on cruise ships, fly in big (and presumably well-maintained) jets with reputable airlines, and wear condoms during intercourse with AMP girls. I think I'll use this opportunity to research and answer my own question, to be posted here. I don't want to be an ignoramus and cavalier with my health. On the other hand, I don't want to become a timid and cowering shadow of a man who disengages from the joys of life (of which sex and sex-like activities comprise a major part) through misguided and unfounded fears. In the end, I think the real decision is - if whatever bad thing comes to pass (e.g., winding up in the hospital as a quadriplegic from a bungee-jumping accident), can I say, "I knew the risks, accepted them while taking reasonable precautions, lived like I wanted, and am now one of the unlucky few." If you're okay with that, then live on. If not (i.e., if you're doing something you don't really want to do or don't get much of a bang from) and you're doing it on a dare, because you think you should, because you feel peer pressure and want to be part of a group, etc.,then change your behavior. Because if you wake up in the hospital as a quad under those circumstances, you're gonna hate yourself. More to come...
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Let us know what you find Rod. I'd recommend medhelp's STD forum. They seem like smart, but down to earth MDs and researchers there don't have an agenda of causing panic like the OP here seems to. My own feeling about BBBJs is that HIV is probably possible but so rare it's not worth worrying about. Some of the bacterial STDs have realistic transmission risks, but they are so easily treatable with antibiotics that it's not worth worrying about. As for HSV-2 it rarely infects the mouth, so I don't worry about that one. HSV-1 is the big concern. 80% of the population has it, but I was tested and don't have it so that is something I am at risk of acquiring. To me (having read the medhelp forum) I get the feeling that the transmission risks for HSV-1, unlike the others, is high enough to rise above "theoretical navel staring" as you put it. However, my feeling is that even if I did get it I would just join the 80% who already have it. Probably it would be asymptomatic and, even if not, it almost always just considered a nuisance infection without an serious consequences. Yes there are some rare cases of serious outbreaks that people who know little or want to cause panic like to show, but they are rare compared to the use symptoms: nothing!
• Lap

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  13 years ago

  The timing of this article is unbelievable and truly appreciated. I am curious about your background, curiousgeorgefun. Sounds like you might have some medical training of sorts? Or maybe just extensive internet research? Regardless, I tend to agree w/ Rod8432 and Dougster, that although the risk is there, the likelihood isn't (apologies for the poor paraphrasing if so), so if I'm going to drive and fly then I might as well receive!
• IrishLad

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  13 years ago

  Curiousgeorge, I think you have an agenda. Christian organization? I have noticed while researching stds that nothing skews the internet results like christian organizations that want to try to make it seems like anything sexual results in immediate hospitalization. You're not going to get an std from a handjob. You can construct some theoretical arguments for how it is possible, but in fact there are no confirmed cases, ever, in all of medical history. The reason you don't get HIV from a BJ is that HPV is a VERY delicate virus, and saliva is a digestive fluid. Unless she has a mouthful of bleeding sores, you're fine. There are some things you can catch like chlamydia (bacterial, so antibiotics fix it), but it is a relatively safe activity and NOT a meaningful AIDS risk. HPV is warts. Not genital warts, all warts of every kind that every human being gets are caused by some variation of the HPV virus. A dick wart is not very different from a hand wart or a face wart. In some vanishingly small percentage of cases any wart can be cancerous and in a woman's cervix the risk is higher than in any other case, but in general, we humans don't freak out about warts, we freeze them off. This goes for women too. Please stop trying to freak people out. Bottom line. A hand job is no more medically dangerous than a hand shake. A blow job has a moderate risk of std, but not the scary ones.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Rod's number of 1 in 65,000 dying in automobile accidents a year sounded a little low to me so I looked it up. It's more like 1 in 9,000 but is steadily dropping with time: [view link]
• curiousgeorgefun

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  13 years ago

  I don't list the letters after my name for a reason. I see that many have searched the net and found other statistics. Mine came from texts the CDC and NIH website. Last two listed are open in source. There is a lot of info out there gentlemen. Pick your source. To flame someone or to call them a religious nutjob for letting someone know there is risk in a behavior that we all enjoy is wrong. We all do things that carry risk... granted some things are 'more' risky than others. I will check put lab place you can get your own confidential tests without a script and types and prices. The reason most don't recommend gardisil after 26 for men and women is because insurance companies assume most are married and in faithful relationships by then. Besides just because you already have one type of HPV doesn't mean you couldn't get another like the one that causes a chunk of cauliflower to grow off the tip of your dick. Vaccination is cheap and a lot less uncomfortable than having a lesion frozen off. Half of the sex workers in one town I visit are HIV positive. It is very rare with oral contact. Not saliva but small amounts of blood from bad teeth.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Here's an article from medhelp discussing why vaccination is not indicated in men over 26: [view link] "The older a person is, the more likely s/he has had multiple HPV infection, and the lower the chance s/he is still susceptible to the types covered by the vaccines" "new HPV infections are most common in younger persons -- the chance of a new infection drops rather dramatically after age 26." "[a 29yo male] will gain little if any measurable health protection personally by being immunized. " "Expect a total of $500-600, for the vaccine itself ($360 for Gardasil) plus adminsitration charges and clinic visits to your provider's office." (and 3 doctors visits over a number of months = lost time at work) "My guess is that you have already been infected with at least 2 or 3 and very possibly all 4 of the Gardasil types and both the Cervarix types. If I were in your situation, I wouldn't get immunized. ... However, if you were my patient and you still wanted immunization after knowing all this, I would be happy to give it to you and help lighten your wallet. " I also wonder about the areas you are visiting with 50% HIV+ sex workers. Typically sex workers in the US do not have high rates of HIV unless they are also injection drug users and/or meth addicts. Maybe you need to start seeing a higher class of sex workers!
• bang69

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  13 years ago

  There is a lot of missinfo aout there. The best thing for all of us to do is use comon sence & ask a doctor for correct info in reguards to std's,aids,hpv so on & so forth
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  curiousgeorgefun: "To flame someone or to call them a religious nutjob for letting someone know there is risk in a behavior that we all enjoy is wrong." You got flamed because practically every statement you said was misinformation. In particular, you claimed there was STD risk in getting a HJ when there is not.
• Lap

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  13 years ago

  I don't agree that practically everything that curiousgeorge wrote was misinfo, although it does seem that this article was a more amped in tone than the one from 2009, which was pretty well written I thought. From everything that I learned over the past year or so -- about as long as I've been at the hobby -- the overall gist I get is that the risk of catching a bug from a BBBJ is relatively low and practically nil with HJs, and it makes sense to me that DATY carries a higher risk than a BBBJ. This discussion only solidified that position, but it's not a bad thing to be reminded once in a while that tuscling is certainly not a Sunday drive in the country, so it is important to be careful ... but that also applies to bungee-jumping and hang-gliding, so go figure. It also sounds like you certainly have some education and real-world experience on this topic, curiousgeorge, so that's appreciated as well, although I have to agree to an extent with Dougster that some of the things that you wrote appear to be false -- like the one about the dentist (according to potheadpl ... love that user name) -- which certainly throws off my read of your post a bit. I'm also curious as to where this 50% HIV town is located? Hopefully not Brooklawn NJ!
• curiousgeorgefun

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  13 years ago

  Dougster: You got flamed because practically every statement you said was misinformation. In particular, you claimed there was STD risk in getting a HJ when there is not. didn't you read the article. I said the risk was low... truth is very low. But the other truth is that it isn't non-exsistant which you seem to propose. To say that there just is no risk is like saying if you drive very carefully and always wear your seatbelt you will be just fine. a quick google search revealed this: ED Journal Volume 14, Number 6–June 2008 I never proclaimed to be specialist in STD research. I was careful not to speak of my speciality for privacy reasons. As far as Gardasil, if you read the article you posted as 'evidence' you would have discovered that the reason that it "isn't" recommended for those under 26 was because the current research that is published only covers the ages up to 26. All medical research whether it is a new drug or procedure follows the same type of course. First you test it out on healthy younger people, then older and sicker looking for side effects. IF A NEW DRUG/PROCEEDURE shows significant benefit over potential risk it goes quicker to approval. Dr. Handsfield even said that there are several studies currently ongoing for older people, and it was an insurance paying for the vaccination issue over the risk/benefit. You should know this because it sounds like you are a physician also from your reply. To suggest that the risk is so negligible to not warrant any caution, or a vaccination that is available even though you would "be happy to give it to you and help lighten your wallet" is irresponsible, especially since there are younger readers on this board who would be eligible for the vaccination 'free of charge' depending on their insurance. I got my vaccination series and I'm double the age of the upper limit. I paid for it even though I could have probably got it free, but didn't want people who knew me to 'ask questions'. I keep my private and professional life very separate.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Here's a link to the article that curiousgeorgefun is talking about: [view link] Regarding female hand to male genital transmission: "There were 4 instances of transmission from the woman's hands to the man's genitals, including 1 case in which it was the sole source" "Partner transmission was defined as the presence of a specific HPV genotype at an anatomic site in 1 partner and its absence in all sites of the other partner at a given visit, along with the presence of this HPV type in the unaffected partner at the subsequent visit. " It sounds like in three cases the woman had an HPV type on her hand on one visit and the male did not have that type, however on a subsequent visit the male had it on his genitals but the woman now had it at other sites besides her hand so it wasn't clear where the male genitals got it from. In one case, however, the woman still only had it on her hand so the researchers conclude it must have gone from her hand to his genitals. The big flaw here is how do they know the male got it from his own partner at all? The couple reported being monogamous, but how we know the male did not "cheat" and did not tell? The authors even admit this flaw in the discussion at the end. Also, note that I was quoting Dr. Handsfield, regarding his comments specifically directed at a 29yo male. I was not stating my own opinion. That's why I put it in quotes --- get it? I'm personally not going to bother with the Gardasil until they come out with a recommendation for people my age to get it. In Seattle we have a very good STD clinic at Harborview. Some say it's the best in the country. I'm not a doctor myself, so I rely on what I read on medhelp (Handsfield being with UW which is associated with the Harborview STD clinic), and what the Harborview doctors tell me in person. I'll trust their own expertise regarding cost/benefit since it is well known that non-experts typically worry too much. When I do go in I have to fill out information regarding my income and sexual history, so they know all about what I've been doing with strippers. From income they also know I could easily afford the Hep B vaccine or Gardasil, but, so far have not recommended it. I'll wait until they do before I get it. In the meantime I'll spend that extra $500 for Gardasil and whatever the Hep B vaccine costs and get some more LDs, HJs, FS and what not instead. The free time I don't have to take for all those low (nil?) benefit vaccines is probably worth even more to me than the cost of vaccines. Everyone ultimately has to make their own, informed decisions, of course, I just wanted to clear up some of the misinformation you are spreading here.
• curiousgeorgefun

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  13 years ago

  Again what misinformation? Can you get a std from a bbbj. ?... yep Can you get a std from a hj. Yes, rare but you still can. Does it stop me..... no Do I take precautions..... yes Is there a vaccination out there that helps prervents HPV..... yes is it a concern for men... depends on if you care about wife/girlfriend or future ones, AND IF YOU DONT WANT A HUGE WART GROWING OFF YOU MANHOOD. Is the vaccination Free? Depends on age and insurance is it worth cost if not free.... depends on what you think its worth not to have that wart
• curiousgeorgefun

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  13 years ago

  If you are still confused talk to your own doctor. Don't listen to anyone on net with no accountablity. I tried to dispell crap I read in discussion. Plus I found out a out vaccination. You can't say that it is impossible to get x from y when there are many case reports out there. If you would rather stick your head in sand, fine, believe what you want. Don't get the vaccination. Don't cry when it costs you 500 for your deductable for that surgery/ those surgeries, to freeze off/cut off those lesions. As far as I am concerned this is a dead issue. Any questions email me directly.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  What misinformation? Your biggies were: 1) claiming you can get an STD from a HJ 2) claiming that cervical cancer in the past guarentees HPV today 3) the florida dentist thing (actually talk to pothead about that, I haven't studied it) 4) claiming that Gardasil is not indicated in men over 26 because most men are assumed to be monogamous after age 26. The real reasons are that they have probably already been infected, the consequences are almost always nothing at all, and the benefits are just generally dubious and especially for the cost That was explicit misinformation. OTOH, many of your statements were more vague and misleading even if there wasn't enough to pin you down on specific misinformation. In particular: 1) You made worrying about penile cancer a big deal when there are actually very few cases for the number of men who get HPV (which is nearly all men) 2) You "forgot" to mention that the vast majority of HPV just clears itself with no symptoms 3) You "forgot" to mention that even if a wart does occur it usually just goes away on its own 4) You "forgot" to mention that even if the wart does not go away on its own it can usually be removed, no big deal, and won't come back 5) In general, you make low risk/low consequences things out to be something worth worrying about 6) Your idea that >52 year old men who are fucking boatloads of hookers have not already been exposed to all the strains of HPV that Gardasil covers and should shell out $500 for vaccine which is useless by that point is simply comical. curiousgeorgefun (cgf): "If you are still confused talk to your own doctor." Agree talk to your own doctor. Especially the one about the 52yo hooker monger who thinks Gardasil is going to be of any benefit to him at all. cgf: " Don't listen to anyone on net with no accountablity" Hmmm... That would be you, curiousgeorgefun. cgf: "You can't say that it is impossible to get x from y when there are many case reports out there" There are none! You cited one highly flawed study. What else you got? cgf: "Don't get the vaccination" I won't. I'm too old now. I'll spend the $500 on strippers instead. cgf: "Any questions email me directly." I bet your mailbox will be flooded after all the expert knowledge you presented here. Good day!
• Chess

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  13 years ago

  My goodness, so much misinformation here so let me clarify afew things. There is no HIV risk from a handjob. All that talk about a cut here and a cut there and tehy come in contact and then you get it, do you know how many stars have to be alighned for that to happen? In that case, then maybe we can also claim shaking hands has a risk since all cuts do have a risk at that point. So the risk of getting HIV from a handjob is non-existent, even if the lady spits in her hand and gives you one. Too many stars have to be alligned. Secondly, BBBJ risk of HIV is non-existent for the receiving partner(the man) and considered real fro teh giving partner(female) since precum and ejaculate contain a concentration of the virus so high that tehre is risk of catching it. So what do experts reccommend? Swallow or spit it. The mouth is a mucus membrane and the stomach has acid that neutralizes it. Furthermore, saliva has properties that make it less likely for HIV to survive. Now as mentioned earlier, other diseases have risks too, and are treatable, so not such a big deal. And another thing, most strippers dont have STD's and practice far more safer sex than the average female, so go figure if your risk is greater with a stripper than with a girl you just met in a bar. All this talk from curious seems like a scare tactic. The fact that we are talking about this is probably achieving his objective. I just thought i would assure you all, that as said by my fellows before me, that yes, everything you do in life has a risk, but please, dont scare people in the hopes of making them have phobias for going into strip clubs, it is just as safe as your interactions with human beings out there in the church or in the mall, or at the supermarket. I could make an article about risks of shaking hands and make it sound scary too.
• Dougster

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  13 years ago

  Whether or not you can get HIV from a BBBJ is a matter of debate even amongst real experts. Hansfield says he has not read any convincing evidence of it, but our local chief of HIV prevention, Bob Wood (who does not seem prone to hysteria), says he thinks it's possible, saying he has heard too many say that was their only risk factor for them all to be lying. I tend to agree with the latter on this one. However, my feeling is that if you pick strippers who are young white women it is very unlikely that they will have HIV to beging with. If you want to be extra careful try to avoid IV drug users, although, of course, it may be hard to tell for sure. If you are then a fairly healthy white heterosexual male yourself with no STDs you overall chance of getting HIV from a BBBJ from such a girl is going to be just about zilch.
• Stiletto25

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  13 years ago

  I agree with Dougster. This article is filled with misinformation..
• LeeH

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  13 years ago

  Stiletto25: "I agree with Dougster." Well, that's gotta suck.
• bebop10

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  13 years ago

  Wow, yes the risk of an STD from a HJ is low, the risk of an STD from a BBBJ is much higher but it doesn't matter, ANY risk of an STD is a big deal. Many of you guys are dismissing STDs like it were chicken pox. Just because the risk is small doesn't mean you should go find the next prostitute and get some services done without any risks. Honestly, regardless if curious George is over exaggerating, when it comes to STD thats how it should be.
• curiousgeorgefun

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  13 years ago

  funny thing.... by the time you read all the comments after the original article you think I am a crazy paranoid and downright lying.... I wrote the article after someone asked if they got their blood alcohol high enough would it kill herpies if they got a hummer from a stripper in the discussions. I got a PM at same time of post so it was legit question. What is so depressing is after you read all the comments afterwards you may consider not getting the Gardisil vaccination if you were under 26 (or over if your risk was low of previously getting HPV) which is free under many health plans. That could save a life. Unless of course you think that cervical cancer NEVER kills anyone, like getting a BBBJ has no risk, and no one EVER got something from a stripper's hand.... I only went off information from the CDC (center for disease control) and NIH National institute for health) and Calf State board of health.... but.... who are they to argue with the experts that say you cant catch shit from a stripper giving you a BBBJ