Comments by FTS (page 5)

“ So let me get this straight. I can buy things with bitcoin. Really???? I can buy things with it, which is quite unique if you ignore cash, check, credit card, debit card and barter....... Can you say Ponzi???” - This is getting to be quite boring and repetitive, pretty sure you’re just trolling at this point. Straw man argument. Derision. What else is new?

^^You are arguing over semantics, and that’s perfectly fine; semantical consensus is essential for reaching consensus on everything else. However, I think my description was not only accurate but also appropriate and in-line with the common usage of those words and phrases. Writing something like “I can make purchases on Amazon by only spending my labor,” would not really be in accordance with common speech and it wouldn’t really be accurate because labor is not a monetary good. When people use the word “spend” in this context, they’re typically conveying the idea that they gave up some quantity of a thing they own (e.g. money) for some purpose. The exact mechanism of how a transaction is conducted isn’t typically given any consideration. For instance, we often spend US dollars to buy things that are manufactured in China or India or Japan, and the corporation that manufactures those goods often receive their local currency as payment. But, when we tell the stories about how we spent those US dollars, we don’t say “I spent X amount of yuan,” or “I paid Y rupees,” despite the fact that, along the way, those US dollars that we spent were definitely exchanged for another currency that the vendor then received. No, we describe things as they happen from our perspective. When I spend my bitcoins, I really am, in fact, spending my bitcoins, the same way that people spend dollars. It’s all just monetary goods being exchanged, and often times there’s conversions along the way, one monetary good for another. If you want to think of Bitcoiners as belonging to a geographically distributed, discrete, foreign nation, then that’s fine. As far as my Bitcoin-money goes, I’m like a European traveling abroad in America with a big stack of euros, and when I buy stuff it just so happens that there’s an instantaneous conversion of my money into US dollars. Although, the reality is that my chosen money is much harder than any fiat currency, so I am very reluctant to ever spend it. “… unless you’re being deceitful on purpose to make bitcoin seem more useful than it is.” -Not at all. I don’t think I’ve ever made the claim that using Bitcoin is as common and as convenient as using one’s native currency (although, I do believe that there are some instances in which using Bitcoin is, or would be, far more convenient than having to deal with the legacy financial system). Whether or not it’s equally convenient or it isn’t, that’s irrelevant. 100s of millions of people use Bitcoin for its intended purpose—money—and it’s perfectly fine to say that that money is “spent.”

“OK sugar tits, do it. And while you're at it, show me why that degree means you're right.” -What is with you people and changing the topic by putting words in my mouth? News flash: I never claimed that having an advanced degree means I’m right. “FTS is just another whiny little punk. People with real money and real information don't share it on sites like this.” -Yawn. Here’s another resource for y’all. Learn something: https://braiins.com/blog/bitcoin-mining-the-grid-generators In case that one isn’t academic enough for ya, here’s this one: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12599-021-00686-z.pdf

“ ^ This is the internet, where we all have Harvard MDs, Yale JDs, and Stanford MBAs.” -The implication is that I’m lying? Why don’t you request some proof of my degree, and see what happens? “Typical boomer…” “Typical of the young…” -“Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery.” Or, perhaps… parrot? And, yes, I am offended by dishonesty. Not going to apologize for that. “when arguing the future” -Hmm… I don’t recall making arguments about the future. I don’t feel like scrolling up, please quote the writing in which I made such an argument. I get it, y’all aren’t motivated to do any research, and you’re not going to be convinced by a stranger on a strip club website. That’s fine, I don’t mind, I’m just cleaning up the mess of misinformation that y’all are bringing into this thread that I made. If you don’t care about Bitcoin, then here’s an idea: stop commenting. Stop steering the thread off the original topic, which is just a piece of news. Stop being so sensitive :-P

“ Hope that helps.” -Typical boomer; when shown to be wrong, just use the insults. No humility, apparently. Parrots don’t earn master’s degrees from Ivy League universities.

"Bitcoin is bad for the environment. There's no way around this friend." -False. Bitcoin is merely an informational protocol. Claiming that it's bad for the environment is as ignorant as saying TCP/IP is bad for the environment. Here, allow me to Steelman your position: "Given the assumption that greenhouse gas production in large volumes, by humans, significantly changes the climate in such a way that will eventually be catastrophic for human civilization, mining Bitcoin by using the energy of fossil fuels is bad for the environment when the byproduct is a greenhouse gas." Goddamn, am I the only one on this forum that can think?

"If you are 'energy intensive,' you are not good for the environment." -Jesus H Christ, how ignorant are you? Energy is a natural component of the physical universe; "energy intensive = not good for the environment" is a false equivalency. And, by the way, all of human civilization is energy intensive! Our air-conditioners, our lights, our aircraft-carriers, our Christmas lights, dryers, televisions, cars, and the computers and mobile devices that we use to access TUSCL ... all consume energy. You know what consumes energy AND produces greenhouse gasses? Cows! Oh, I guess cows are bad for the environment, despite the fact that they're a naturally occurring organism within the environment. Saying something is bad for the environment because it uses energy is something that a kindergarten student might say; that statement has no nuance, no depth of thought, no reasoning... it's just a false statement. How have you remained within our civilization with such lack of critical thinking skills? Tell you what, when you sell all your electrical devices, join the Amish, live only on the energy of the sun, and never fart again... then I'll give up my Bitcoin. "Now you're calling Bitcoin 'liberating.'" -What else would you call a monetary system that is uncensorable, seizure resistant, completely permissionless, and of a fixed supply? Is the traditional banking system uncensorable? No. Is the money in your bank account seizure resistant? No. Is it permissionless? No. Is it of a fixed supply? Absolutely not. Oh, but it's "not liberating." I'm not merely a fanboy, I'm calling you out your ignorance. If you said the Earth was flat I would be calling you out on that as well. Try learning something: https://youtu.be/xLYYh4aPXAM, https://youtu.be/JDXSimTojfo, https://youtu.be/cR4sMsI8z7U, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH7JvnvyBio

Actually, you just changed the subject to avoid dealing with the fact that what I wrote is true. You can’t even tell the truth about what I wrote in this thread! When the hell did I ever write that proof of work isn’t energy intensive? Why do you make up lies? You’re a liar.

"Bitcoin does the same. You only read things that agree with you and your echo chamber emboldens you into thinking you are correct." -This is true of many people, but when it comes to how I invest my money I am actually very careful. In this particular case, I spent many hours studying the opposing viewpoints. I carefully examined the arguments of people who proclaim that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme (it isn't), people who claim that it has no value (it does), e.g. Peter Schiff, and I carefully examined the claims of people who say that Bitcoin is bad for the environment (it isn't). No, @BitcoinHodler/CTLennay, I read arguments and I evaluate them based on truth and logic. Sure, I admit that Bitcoin may appear, from the outside, to be a cult (of course, perceptions can be false). But no, it can't be considered a religion based on the definition of the word "religion." This is an example of how I carefully consider the truth and validity of arguments. You've made the claim that my arguments about Bitcoin are religious, and I went to the dictionary to find out if that claim could be considered true. Do words have meaning? If you don't think words have meaning, then fine, my arguments are "religious," but then they are also "cloudy," and "stairs," and "hamburger," and "unjeliframbic." "I hope you find a young lady who will pull you out of it." -Pull me out of what, exactly? Critical thinking and prudent decision-making? My interests in science, technology, philosophy, and economics? If she wants to pull me out of those things then, no thank you, I'll pass for now.

Here ya go everybody, another resource for ya. Learn something— https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lex-fridman-podcast/id1434243584?i=1000557639540

“The only use case for bitcoin is for transactions the US government would block.” -Correction: ONE of the use cases of Bitcoin is for making transactions that ANY individual or organization, whether they are good or evil, would want to censor. Just like automobiles, penicillin, and the internet, Bitcoin is a liberating technology that empowers anybody who uses it. @BitcoinHodler/CTLennay—YOU are depraved if you would wish to deprive society of this fundamental freedom. Sick people are going to torture animals regardless of Bitcoin’s existence; it’s not as if evil was only just introduced in 2008. I’ve written it once, and I’ll write it again—you’re an idiot. I have very little respect for you.

Here ya go, y’all—Bitcoin was just featured on 60 Minutes this past weekend. Try to learn something, okay? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-beach-el-salvador-60-minutes-2022-04-10/

“Your quasi religious arguments” -Nothing that I wrote, about bitcoin, was dependent upon or concerned itself with “a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.” Also, nothing that I wrote was dependent upon or concerned itself with “the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies.” Additionally, nothing that I wrote was dependent upon or concerned itself with “devotional and ritual observances.” Therefore, none of my arguments about bitcoin could logically be described as “religious.” “This thread is getting far off topic. The original topic was about the announcement that point-of-sale device companies would be adding the Lightning Network as an alternative payment network to the credit cards, which means you’ll be able to pay for goods and services at some of the largest retailers using the Lightning Network."

“You're the ranting doomsayer on the street corner, the Jehovah's Witness banging on my door, the Amway salesman promising millions.” -ad hominem. "This thread is getting far off topic. The original topic was about the announcement that point-of-sale device companies would be adding the Lightning Network as an alternative payment network to the credit cards, which means you’ll be able to pay for goods and services at some of the largest retailers using the Lightning Network."

“FTS, I linked the thread in my original comment calling you out for lying about paying using bitcoin on Amazon.” -That wasn’t really a lie, I really did make a purchase on Amazon by only spending my Bitcoins, and I can still do that now whenever I want. Notice that that is not the same as writing that Amazon has a Bitcoin checkout option. It may not have been the best way of wording it, but I consider it to be effectively paying for things with bitcoins— https://paywithmoon.com/

And, again... "This thread is getting far off topic. The original topic was about the announcement that point-of-sale device companies would be adding the Lightning Network as an alternative payment network to the credit cards, which means you’ll be able to pay for goods and services at some of the largest retailers using the Lightning Network."

religion noun a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. My only apology will be to say, "I'm sorry that you're wrong, again, Tetradon." "good" and "right" are not exclusively religious terms. Those are terms that are used in religious settings, but so are words like "the," "and," "cross," "light," "truth," etc. Sharing good news with people, because it's good, is NOT an activity that is exclusively within the domain of religion. Wanna know how I know that? Because atheists also share good news with their friends. That's what normal people do, regardless of their point-of-view on the origins of life, and the universe, and their moral code. I'm sorry that you're wrong! "...view of Bitcoin as the next stage in human evolution is comical.” -Did you forget about this one? Where did I talk about Bitcoin as the next stage of human evolution? c'mon Tetradon, don't be building straw men.

“ Even if one were to concede (and I'm not) that everything technical you've said is right, your salvific view of Bitcoin as the next stage in human evolution is comical.” -That’s a nice straw man, but let’s not make straw men in this thread, okay? I welcome you to steelman my arguments, but let’s not make straw men. “our very own FTS lied about paying using bitcoin on amazon 2 years ago.” -Please provide a link to the post in which I lied, as I am dubious of this claim. I may have reported about a news article which made that claim, but I don’t think I ever wrote that “Amazon is definitely going to add a Bitcoin payment option within X amount of time” “ If you didn't want validation you wouldn't be begging for it.” -Where did I write “please, please agree with me?” Y’all are fucking wrong, plain and simple. I’m not going to compromise my integrity just because you disagree with me and you like to throw insults. “ Far as BTC - we sadly disagree one final point, well actually 2: 1. the crypto industry has false flagged a number of events, the industry is full of bots on twitter, posting fake events (such as the recent false flag that AMAZON was gonna accept BTC) 2. The crypto industry states that it is a great way to diversify from stocks, however if you look at the charts - stocks and crypto are CLOSELY corelated.” -See, this is just another example of intellectual dishonesty. You just wrote “As far as BTC” and then you went on to talk about crypto. Hellloooo! Crypto =/= Bitcoin! Regarding your 2nd point, they have only recently become loosely correlated. If you look at the entire Bitcoin history you’ll find that Bitcoin goes through periods of being correlated and periods of being totally uncorrelated. That’s quite unlike e.g. NASDAQ and SPX, which are pretty much always highly correlated. Lolz on the soft-balled old men dependent on the Pfizer blue pill. This thread is getting far off topic. The original topic was about the announcement that point-of-sale device companies would be adding the Lightning Network as an alternative payment network to the credit cards, which means you’ll be able to pay for goods and services at some of the largest retailers using the Lightning Network.

Here ya go, y’all. Learn something: https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1513554374861197312?s=21&t=5N6W_BH3jlpG56tl01b_1w https://youtu.be/4ju_Za8N7ig

" ‘So, where is the appreciation?’ LOL is this it? You want validation from random guys on a titty bar message board?” -Not really. You’re the one who brought up the many hours of education that’s required to understand this stuff, so you acknowledge that there is a lot of time needed to figure this stuff out. I’m calling you out on your lack of appreciation for being provided the truth that would otherwise require many hours of studying to find. I would do the same thing in any other setting. In fact, if you look at my profile you’ll notice that I’ve started quite a few discussions about Bitcoin already, so I knew that I would receive this kind of feedback before I started the discussion. “‘I’m just sitting here writing what I know to be truthful,’ So am I. You're a pissy little bitch.” -I’m not the one who started the trolling and insulting. I offered up a piece of news, and right away you started with the negativity. “Bitcoin is based on the premise that you can sell it to a bigger sucker at a higher price.” Taking responsibility isn’t being a bitch. Making a commitment to what is true isn’t being a bitch. No, the bitch is the negative person who doesn’t have the balls to look at himself/herself. Notice that I’m not directly calling you a bitch, I’m offering you some advice so that you can better yourself. But, go ahead, keep insulting me until you’re finished. I can take it. Get it out of your system.

“No, I'm calling you a pissy little bitch because of your tissue paper-thin skin responses to legitimate questions.” -A lot of these questions don’t seem genuine. I’ve repeated many points several times, and nobody seems to want to have a little courage and say, “ya know what, FTS is right about this particular point.” Why not? Who is the bitch? I’m just sitting here writing what I know to be truthful, and calling people out on what they write as either being false, or what I perceive to be deceptive spreading of misinformation. “ You know what? Maybe if I devoted 20 hours a week to studying this stuff, I'd think otherwise. But guess what, to me, and to many of us, it isn't our life's priority. ” -So, where is the appreciation? I actually HAVE spent hundreds of hours studying this topic. And people have the gall to write that I’m wrong when they haven’t done the research themselves. Methinks some of you are PROJECTING. Go ahead, do a little research. I’ll wait.

“ ‘Why are you comparing CC transactions to the final settlement transactions of Bitcoin??’ because of your OP where you do exactly that“ -No, I don’t. Go back and re-read it. I think you’re conflating Bitcoin transactions with Lightning transactions. I’ll wait for you to admit you were wrong. Do a little more research on Lightning Network. “ ‘First of all, on-chain transactions are NOT priced in dollars.’ i did not say they were“ -You quoted them in dollars, which is not accurate. On-chain transactions are not quoted in dollars, they’re quoted in satoshis and they are dependent on the size of the transaction data. Again, quoting them in dollars is a misrepresentation. “read the sentence where YOU mention credit card transaction fees. Don't you think you were deceptive when you start by discussing common retail purchases in your OP and the transaction fee for 1 billion dollars in a later post and not the transaction fee for an actual common retail purchase?“ -No, I wasn’t deceptive at all. YOU were the one who brought up on-chain transactions, not me. Go back and re-read. Again, I’ll wait for you to admit you are wrong. Don’t be a coward; take responsibility for your mistake.

“You condemn people for being anything less than perfect angels when they respond to you, then when they bring up legit concerns you cuss them out for misinformation.” -This TUSCL user, K, initially responded by asking questions, as if he didn’t know the answers to his own questions. I then responded very genuinely with truthful information. His response was not only a complete disregard of the information that I provided, but also a response that makes it seem as if he is already (falsely) confident in his understanding of the topics that he was initial questioning. How else should I interpret that, other than a display of deception and malicious spreading of misinformation? If he already perceived his own understanding as being accurate, then it’s dishonest to then ask for information on those topics as if you don’t already have confidence in your own understanding. “ Because if you're skeptical of Bitcoin, you must hate mom, apple pie, freedom, democracy, and Jesus!” -No, Tetradon, actually the complete opposite! Yes, one OUGHT to be skeptical of Bitcoin! But K is clearly not skeptical, he’s dismissive of the truth and just spreading false information! For instance: regarding the transaction fee, the actual, network-determined transaction fee can be viewed at this website: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC,2h,count . One will notice that the quoted fees are in satoshis/vB. So, why would K then characterize the transaction fees as a quantity of USD?! The transaction fees are not in dollars! It’s also a misrepresentation to write that people would be buying every-day items like milk and coffee using the final settlement on-chain transactions. This is ridiculous? And you call me a pissy little bitch? It’s like I’m being accused of being a bitch for teaching flat-earthers that the Earth is round! This is pathetic! How about you guys take a little responsibility for the things that you write? Own up to your mistakes, and your false statements, like I do! That’s what it means to be a man. The bitch is the coward who can’t admit when he’s wrong.

“Yes I am.” -Short it. “Its clunky and not very user friendly.” -There is nothing clunky or not user friendly about scanning a QR code with a smartphone camera. What’s clunky is pulling out a checkbook, writing your transaction details, signing it like you’re John Hancock signing the Declaration of Independence, tearing it off and handing it to the cash register, and then the merchant has to handle all those checks. “Mass adoption won't happen.” -Yea, they said that back when Satoshi Nakamoto was still around in 2009. Here we are, 13 years later, and over 100 million people use Bitcoin. Do you realize what that means? That means, if Bitcoin users were their own country, then Bitcoin users would rank within the top 15 countries by population! Methinks mass adoption has already started. “The average American doesn't want to be their own bank.” -The average American doesn’t want to lose money, or be the victim of robbery. “I'm not sure what you do for work, but I work in finance.” -I’m a physicist, who’s spent lots of time studying finance and economics.

@K, I think you are purposely being deceptive and spreading false information, or you are just lazy and didn’t read everything that I wrote. “ cool but a highly inaccurate answer. bitcoin transactions fees are currently 1.50 USD and has been as high as 14 USD. This is per transaction.” -I can say emphatically, and with complete confidence, that that statement is completely false. 1) First of all, on-chain transactions are NOT priced in dollars. Please read, again, what I wrote. At the time that I wrote my last message, the on-chain transaction fee was about 5 sats/vB. Read that again. 5 SATS/VB. Did you read “USD” anywhere in that fee? No, because transaction fees are not priced in dollars, they are priced in the native currency of Bitcoin. 2) yes, that is per ON-CHAIN transaction. On-chain transactions are FINAL, unlike credit-card transactions. Did you purposely ignore what I wrote? People won’t be buying milk by final settlement. Do people use ACH or Wire transfers to buy milk? NO! Why are you being deceptive?? “I used my credit card. it was still under 2 USD. CVS kindly absorbed the small transaction fee VISA charged. I doubt they will absorb 1.55 USD to use BTC. that will be passed on to me making the milk 3.50 USD. nearly 80% transaction fee to buy milk.” -Again, why are you spreading false information?! Why are you comparing CC transactions to the final settlement transactions of Bitcoin?? You are also wrong about CVS “kindly [absorbing] the small transaction fee VISA charged.” CVS doesn’t kindly pay for things for you! CVS is trying to make a profit! The cost of the CC transaction is absorbed into the cost of the goods and services sold by CVS, I.e. if they used a cheaper payment network then the price of their goods and services would be cheaper! “My credit card transactions are on my account instantly. Do not confuse a nightly account posting with transaction confirmation. Or worse, confusing disbursement to the vendor with confirmation. Doing so makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.” -I am making no confusion, you are the one spreading false information. DO NOT COMPARE CC TRANSACTIONS WITH THE FINAL SETTLEMENT BITCOIN TRANSACTIONS! CC transactions are NOT final! Fuck off with your misinformation. I tried to give you the information you were seeking, but clearly you just wanted to bring up these topics so you could spread misinformation. Fuck off.