Tariffs clarified by Victor Davis Hanson

99% of products traded between Canada and the US were tariff-free.

Now here are some of the headlines we are seeing:
Tariff-related layoffs hit five US auto plants that supply factories in Canada and Mexico
www.cnn.com

Tariffs on Canadian goods having a 'devastating effect,' U.S. farmers say
www.cbc.ca

Mogul gets the tuscl tinfoil hat award

Get the excuses ready for Trump's gigantic failures. At what point do you admit maybe even just to yourself that Trump is a complete failure? The Dow Jones would be 10,000 points higher and counting and prices would 100% be better with Kamala in office instead of Trump but let's keep coming up with things to justify Trump's obvious failures and your incredibly bad decision to vote for him.

www.instagram.com

"The Dow Jones would be 10,000 points higher and counting and prices would 100% be better with Kamala in office"

ROFLMAO!!! After Biden's 20% increase in price levels and inflation and it's sub 3% now, prices would be better? Good grief, you're in the tank. But with Harris and her view of freedom of speech, we wouldn't be allowed to say that.

You're not coping with this election too well. See a therapist.

Prices would be better with Kamala in office vs Trump in office shit for brains. Where do you think the Dow Jones is going this week? Up or down? Admit you fucked up and voted for a total failure!

^ LOL. A little triggered today? Or did you find out your ATF gave you genital warts?
Either way, the small penis energy is off the charts.

3 years, 9 months, 14 days. You're going to have a serious drinking problem well before then.

As for the Dow, got a coin to flip?

I don't drink. Time will tell who is on the right or wrong side of history. Your clearly on the wrong side of history. As an example if Trump died today there would be worldwide celebrations. Does that sound like someone on the right side of history?

^ Pick your drug, you clearly are not coping hard enough. First threatening to come up here and kick my ass in 10 seconds flat because basketball (lulz), now all the unprompted insults.

How old are you? You sound like a bully whose life peaked at age 17 and still can't process emotions like a grownup.

Guess what, we live in a multiparty democracy and sometimes elections don't go our way; you have about as much control over that as you do the weather. I opposed Biden but acknowledged a legit election win and certainly didn't squeal with impotent rage.

As for "the wrong side of history," that's an Obama fallacy that history is some impersonal unidirectional process like time. I know his cult--whatever's left of them--thinks it's some kind of diss, but it's a silly statement.

If people want to celebrate his death, that's on them. I don't celebrate when prominent Democrats die, and if you celebrate when a prominent Republican dies, that reflects on your character and no one else's.

If Trump died today it would be a tragedy, as much as I dislike the draft dodger, that wouldn’t be a good thing for anyone. We don’t wish our opponents to die, no matter how fierce they may have been towards us, anyone who wishes for a death of a political opponent is no better than Putin.

@mogul1985
That analogy is idiotic. You MAGA clowns think that every other country is taking advantage of us and that’s ridiculous. Facts matter, our economy is probably 20x better than any of these countries and other countries, how do you think they can take advantage of us. Stop being stupider than these fools that placed these tariffs on every other nation in the world except Russia. They’re gaslighting you and if you don’t know it, I feel sorry for you.

^plenty of leftists and rightists wish for and celebrate deaths on the opposing side. There are even leftists who want to go around killing cops or white people, and there are rightists who want to kill immigrants and arabs. Weve seen this happen before unfortunately

Trump didnt draft dodge he was medically exempt

Trump didn't draft dodge he was medically inept.

Dow Jones Futures are down over 1500 points for tomorrow. Remember NONE of this bullshit was necessary at all.

Google it. Victor is a long time trump supporter with no financial background

No content provided

@twentyfive The other countries don't have a $36T debt or $2T spending deficit. If they can't compete with fair trade too bad, not our problem. Apple could have made products with the Foxconn factory that was being built in MI or WI instead. I get America helped Europe and Japan post-WWII as they were just rubble. They've had 80 years to stop depending on America via tariffs, VATs, limitation, quotas, ect to protect their products.

in the 1980s/1990s Japan and South Korea subsidized and dumped semiconductors to drive American semi off-shore for cheaper labor. When that started to happen, POTUS should have retaliated with tariffs to support American made semis, and same for pharmaceuticals. Now, 90% of our antibiotics are made in China rather than here. The CCP even threatened us in 2020 when Trump called it the Kung Fu/Wuhan Virus. That was a national security threat, and brainstem Biden did nothing to return phama manufacturing to in-county.

AND, if gov't had protected our semi industry 30+ years ago when the Globalists were moving off-shore, we wouldn't being handing out corporate welfare to Billion Dollar companies that the Dems are calling greedy. Even when we saw off-shore semi/chip manufacturing was endangering our national security (same with drugs), gov't did nothing, just like they did nothing when it was clear Fannie/Freddie were headed for a crash due to Clinton's hard-handed push with the Community Reinvestment Act with Sub-Prime Mortgages (junk) that Carter created that led to the financial collapse in 2008 that was well documented by the NYT and the book "The Big Short."

In late 2020, America was starting to recover, and Biden exploded spending and "free" cash to people. Record inflation, AFG horrific bugout disaster, with the Ukraine and Gaza wars are Biden's legacy, not to mention his inability to govern.

Yeah, so I'll take the odds we'll be better in a few years. The direction we were headed was to a cliff.

@longb Why does it matter if VDH is a "Trump" supporter. Obama is a Marxist and Biden just went with the wind for 50 years and made sure his pockets were well lined with Bagman Hunter with the Collection Plate. Obama even had good things to say about Senate Majority Leader Robert "KKK" Byrd in 2010 when he assumed room temp. Today, the Radical Dems call the Border Patrol Agents and ICE the KKK. The Democrats have a serious policy and messaging problem as they expect Billionaire donors to support them, yet the call them GOP Oligarchs. That just makes no sense, and you wonder why Trump won?

Just remember, Clinton was a draft dodger.

There are smart tariffs, and then there are reckless tariffs.

If you get your news from CNN, MSNBC, MSM, NPR, CBC.ca (state run) you are getting a scripted message. Even the words are the same. And AI memes from Instagram and TikTok of Trump, great, they are hilarious. Unfortunately, the actual video we have of Biden, Harris, Schumer (can't he talk without a script?), Pelosi, Crockett and others very are real.

Trying to find common ground with a MAGA guy is like arguing with my wife, what does it matter what Clinton did, there have been 5 presidential elections since Clinton left office 25 years ago, let’s talk about what’s going on with the current administration, we can have a historical perspective, still it matters very little what happened in the past, the present is where we are living today. Every single time someone points out something about Trump you MAGA defend by deflection. That’s why you’re so unpopular. How about accepting responsibility for your actions and acting appropriately.
Trump was a draft dodger who had his daddy buy his way out of service, now he’s potus, yesterday three deceased servicemen who died in the line of duty had their remains returned and your president couldn’t be bothered to even mention them and their service, he was too fucking busy hosting a multi million dollar golf event to enrich himself.
Shameful

Puddy your screenshot is important to keep in mind if its true, but i dont understand the poster saying “only one didnt sell out”, when his post simply makes it seem all those people asked for tariffs, so trump is no different.

Mogul but didnt you state trump can take greenland because it’s strategically important? And can take panama canal because we use it a lot, No purchase needed for either of those?

^ He can't just "take" Greenland. A deal will be made. It's how it works. Panama Canal: the treaty was violated, CCP will need to go.

Since the Trumpers are so confident that Trump knows what he's doing how about you all make some large stock purchases or growth index fund purchases tomorrow. Does that sound look a good idea or no? You voted with your wallets right?

@mogul1985
Clarifying something for you and the rest of the MAGA geniuses posting ridiculous lies by asking a simple question. Do you guys have a trade deficit with your local supermarket, why don’t you put a tariff on your local Kroger, or Publix, I mean that’s a trade imbalance you spend money on groceries they aren’t buying anything from you are they?

Why would anyone respond to such an infantile and idiotic question? As far as $10.00 an hour DustyJ's question? The answer is no, I am not buying this week. I am 75% cash and not losing much as all, so I can avoid the dead cat bounce and wait 4-12 months before buying back in. Watching the progressives shit their pants on this board has me hoping for an even bigger beating for the market this week.

It's no less infantile than complaining about the trade imbalance, but you do you buddy, I laugh at all of you guys that claim they timed this market, yep sold the day before great for you, your capital gains taxes will bring in more money than these tariffs.

@twentyfive - When someone claims they "timed the market" at any time, let alone the admittedly-mercurial Donald Trump, that's a good time to just laugh.

^ Of course I laugh, knowledgeable investors know even if they magically timed the market , the tax man is gonna get them. Especially after a run-up like we just had.
LOL

^ The market has whipped from -5% to +3%, as I type this it's -0.8%.
And it's going to keep whipping. Idiots on both sides are going to get greedy or panic and get hosed.

^
"Man Plans God Laughs"

1. VDH is a history professor so he should know the disastrous effects of a Tarriff regime on the US economy.

2. These are not reciprocal. This I-D-TEN-T error somehow used the trade deficit to figure out rates vs. their actual tariffs. A tariff regime that had any thought put into it wouldn’t have put tariffs on uninhabited islands. The guy is an idiot and a defense from a mediocre historian does nothing to change any minds.

^ VDH is a brilliant historian but he wanders out of his lane a lot.

^ If the OPs post is reflective of VDH, he doesn’t seem to be very bright, but what do I know

^ I haven't watched that but it looks like him getting out of his lane again.
People I trust say his stuff on the Greeks and Romans is excellent.

Let’s not be relying on the Ancient Greeks or Romans for investing advice!
🏛️🏺 🐧🍑

25 what was ancient rome like????

I’m guessing like your mommas bathroom

I never claimed I timed the market. I went to cash for 75% of my investments because of my age and appetite for risk when dementia and the snatch were in charge.Just worked out fucking great. Amazing people could misconstrue a simple post, but when you're a full of shit fraud you filter everything through what you think say and do.

Nah you like to make inappropriate comments based on insults you we’re definitely implying you timed the market, but like I said you do you, buddy, I’ll still buy you a drink when we see each other again!

Yeah I timed the market getting out 18 months ago. Whatever.

^I didn’t say you had good timing, did I ?😂

"VDH is a brilliant historian but he wanders out of his lane a lot."

What? He doesn't have a credible reputation as a historian at all.

Wandering out of his lane? Sure, I'll give you that. That's why it's pathetic that despite the near 300 comments in that thread criticizing the tariffs, Mogul1984 decided that now is the time to bring Hanson's thoughts on tariffs to the table. Hanson has no clue what he is talking about and next to no credibility.

This shows the level of absolute devotion you guys have to trump. You are incapable of giving any real critique of his policies, no matter how bad. You're incapable of saying, "yeah, I've supported this guy and I want to continue to do so, but this particular policy is bad." You now have to pretend a trade war is a great thing, and that trump forcing a recession is also a great thing for Americans.

Widespread tariffs to this degree are BAD. You don't need a PhD to understand that; America's economy is consumer driven. These tariffs make things more expensive for the consumer. Therefore, it will slow growth. It will hinder the finances of the average American. Not exactly rocket science.

Which makes it even more "interesting" is the fact that so many trumpers here claimed to be voting with their wallets this election. They said "kitchen table issues" were the most important to them. Now suddenly, all you people who were allegedly worried about the price of groceries, have all the time and resources available to support a global trade war to see if tariffs will somehow magically reform the US economy for the better, after you and your fellow Americans deal with higher prices for the next several years? Suddenly you're not worried about those price spikes. So funny.

"What? He doesn't have a credible reputation as a historian at all."
As a classicist, he does.

But if you read his columns, most of them are just conservative red meat meant to rile up the base, talking about everything from defense to LGBTQ to tariffs, like a Paul Krugman on the right (only Krugman manages to get wrong even the issues on which he's supposed to be an authority, like his repeatedly-wrong predictions on inflation).

Most of us are taking a wait-and-see attitude, though the libs here have already declared it a failure based on what is historically a blip in the stock market.

Like I've said elsewhere, the left, as long as I can remember, has said maximizing economic output and minimizing deadweight loss is not the only goal of the economy. When China attacks Taiwan, we're not going to be able to rely on TSMC to make all our chips, or even rely on China for steel, aluminum, and medical supplies, and I don't give a fuck about cheap ass fashion.

Give it time. Not like we have a choice in the matter. The left has only one policy now; whatever Trump does is wrong. Look at the unfocused protests of last weekend. Like it or not, this is the will of the American people. Trump is sticking to his promises more than any presidential candidate in my lifetime.

This is the largest working class tax increase in history. Don't be fooled by the fake tariff talk. Those were not real numbers, viet nam does not have a 95% tariff on the US. This and all the doge cuts are to free up cap space to protect the billionaires tax loopholes.

I did not vote pocketbook issues. I voted for the one person who would guarantee that progressives would routinely soil themselves every day for 4 years. Maybe the fearful old people and the stupid inexperienced young here think this is a tragedy, but that's just bullshit. Nothing has really happened. Eggs were $1.00 less this week than last week and gas is down 45 cents a gallon. People are yapping and making threats, and in reality, in a few weeks people will sit down and in 2 months this will all be over. If things get worse and a year down the road everyone is suffering, I can and will admit I was wrong. If manufacturing revives, we remove the left-wing garbage called activists from college; the border remains closed; illegals flee and prices come down you fucking progressives better admit you were wrong. The best thing is that if everything really is lost I can put my version of "the end of it all" in motion, instead of waiting to see if I ever become ill, let alone terminally ill.

^We know that, you talk about how much you hate America every day here lol.

"The best thing is that if everything really is lost I can put my version of "the end of it all" in motion"

Why don't you do that right now? That way your geriatric wife can take as much BBC as she wants without it making you come on here to complain about "progressives"?

Get a beer, this is long:

@dustyj
"Since the Trumpers are so confident that Trump knows what he's doing how about you all make some large stock purchases or growth index fund purchases tomorrow."

Yeah, right. I pick stocks that show serious potential and not meme stocks - I don't own Bitcoin or any cybercurrency or even Nvidia (for now). I don't day trade. I look to hold at least 18-24 months, and if something shifts, I'll take the hit as a tax write-off.

@twentyfive
"When someone claims they "timed the market" at any time..." I don't time. What I have chosen, and nibble on with big dips are stocks that have good fundamentals and leadership. Right now, the Globalists are punishing the Market to hate on Trump.

"Nah you ( @skibum609) like to make inappropriate comments based on insults you we’re definitely implying you timed the market..." WOW, 25, that's the pot (YOU) calling the kettle black! Look in a mirror PL.

@Rabbit21
Trump's tariffs is just a negotiating tool. Other countries need us to import their stuff to support their Social Welfare Economy more than we need them. So far, $3T in Made In America investments have been committed. And yeah, it won't happen in 1 or 2 quarters. Retail investors look for instant gratification, and have been spoiled the past 18 months by the Mag 7.

@skibum609
Yup, Buffet did too and stock-piled $250B starting over a year ago, even dump a lot of Apple. Cash is king in risky times.

@NinaBambina
I've always said, let's see how it goes in 18 months. If this detox blows-up, the GOP will lose the Senate, House in 2026 and POTUS in 2028. You should be wild with delight just as I am with all the "hands-off" insanity the Dems are doing that just keeps sinking their credibility. I'm no Nostradamus hence we'll see. And if I'm right, I'm willing to bet none of the Dem PLs here will admit they were wrong. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it right here as well as 77M voters, no excuses. What I do know is the reckless spending and associated waste/fraud/corruption plus illegal immigration and "Kneepads" Harris as POTUS (or Biden) would be disastrous, worse than the past 4 years where Brandon was just an Old Man Muppet with someone's arm up his ass moving his mouth - people we didn't vote for, and you have your panties in a twist over Musk who makes recommendations?

BTW, price of eggs that Chuck Schumer was so worried about are coming down in price. Where's Chuckie now? He has egg all over his face.

Again, Tariffs just are a TOOL TO TRUMP. Time to shutdown the American ATM.

@Puddy Tat
"Give it time. Not like we have a choice in the matter. The left has only one policy now; whatever Trump does is wrong. Look at the unfocused protests of last weekend. Like it or not, this is the will of the American people. Trump is sticking to his promises more than any presidential candidate in my lifetime."

EXACTLY!

@longb
Calculations on how foreign counties "tariff" America is more than just the percentage they charge" Limitations, rules on what can be imported, VATs all gets calculated on the cost of importing (and limiting) American products. Viet Nam is already capitulating and 50+ countries want to negotiate. Tariffs will remain as a pain point for them to giddy-up and not drag this out for years of "negotiating." The Asian Stock Markets took a major hit today/last night, MAJOR thumbing, China is already sweating bullets. They are in much worse shape than we are led to believe by the MSM.

The best thing that can happen right now is the tax cut Trump is prosecuting to be made permanent and reduction in spending on waste and killing fraud and corruption.

You do know the IRS records showed that the Middle Class benefited more from the 2017 tax cuts that "Billionaires" and increased revenue collection by 48% over 4 years, only Biden & Dems went on a Spending spree that ignited inflation, devalued the Dollar by printing more paper and took use to a $2T spending deficit over revenues with no end in sight?

IRS tax data for 2022, the top 10%—those with AGI of ~$170K and highe paid about 76% of all federal individual income taxes. Top 1%, $690K and higher paid 41% of all collected in 2022. The bottom 50% paid zippy do da in income taxes.

Hey Nina when you suck old man cock for twenty dollars how much does your pimp take? Come on fess up cum dumpster.

"Old man cock," says the ACTUAL old man, who indeed has to fork over cash that will be later given to a pimp just for attention from the lady of his choice, because his wife is not fuckable and he can't fuck anyone for free.

Meanwhile Ski, unlike you I'm in a real monogamous relationship, with the man I'll be spending the rest of my life with. I do joke around and call him an old man though. After all, he's going to be 39 this year!

^Lie all you want hobag. Fool yourself all you want. Your cuck b/f who I am guessing has sucked more cock than you is old at 39 compared to me at 677, but he's the best you can do, so kudos. Compared to my wife you are just a cockroach, but less attractive.

He is the best I could do, you're absolutely right about that.

You fuck strippers young enough to be your wife's GRANDCHILDREN because that is just how unfulfilled the old lady has left you. Your misery makes sense when that is taken into consideration.

The best thing your geriatric wife has ever done for society in all her 70 years on this planet is fail to reproduce with you. Tell her I said thank you.

Hmm, the market has a couple good days and the Lib Cope Squad(TM) suddenly isn't screeching so loud anymore.
No more spiking the football and declaring the trade war a rout after two days.
@dustyj, @wld4tatas, why so quiet?
Could it be your TDS short-circuited your rational minds, like it has the rest of the left?
Why so quiet?

That post did not age well. Trump wants working Americans to pay a 104% tax on chinese goods. Can anyone explain why that is good for the economy.

China's economy is bad, really bad. When new iPhones cost over $2,400, no one but the wealthy will upgrade.

What you don't understand tariffs are just a tool. ~70 countries are lining up to negotiate a deal.

Way better than what Biden did in 2021-2023 with massive inflation caused by $2T deficit spending with rapid rise in interest rates, people couldn't afford to buy a house, firing people for not getting the unfettered Jap, not reporting what the Jab did to way too many people - one size doesn't fit all, and more died under Biden in 2021 than with Trump in 2020. Those over 55 especially with medical conditions were reasonable candidates, those healthy under 50 and especially under 25 didn't need it, and children under 10 were not suspectable so let's just shutdown schools and pour money to the School Unions that was never spent. How about in NY where Cuomo ignored the extra respirators that Trump expedited given Cuomo had denied spending on them a few years earlier, ignored the hospital ship Trump sent that was never used, sent elderly back to nursing homes to infect/kill 1,000s and now the perv wants to run for NYC mayor. And the kicker: those to volunteered from around the country - nurses and doctors - didn't know they'd be taxed with NYS, NYC and then their own state taxes. These medical workers should have been exempt from any NYS/NYC taxes.

So yeah, the Left has selective memory.

we lost 8 trillion in a week and we blame Coumo

S&P up 0.6% on China's retaliatory tariffs.
Catastrophe, I tell you! Blood in the streets! The world is ending!
Or TDS is just giving the Lib Cope Squad the vapors.

The real losers with this mess are popr and middle class 401k holders

^ The poor don't hold 401k's. The bottom 50% of Americans hold less than 1% of the stock market's wealth.
Most of this loss is hitting the rich.

The rich wont suffer. Everyone else will.

Smarter. China's the one I care about. Europe, Canada, whatevs.
This is about China and getting our supply networks the fuck out of there before they wage war on our allies in the region.
Credible sources say 2027 is when they go to take Taiwan.

www.cnn.com

^ The poor care about prices and wages, not the Dow.

The Dems/Left/Progressives/Socialists had their panties in a twist over eggs, avocados and the dropping Market. However, egg prices are improving as it takes to raise more chickens Biden's crew whack to the turn of over 100M, the markets today went non-linear UP: DOW2,963/7.87%; NASDAQ 1,857/12.16%; S&P 500 474.13/9.52%. This happened after Trump purge hold for 90 days on Tariffs EXCEPT for China that were raised to 125%. ~70 countries are at the negotiating table now. Like I keep saying Tariffs are just a Negotiating Tool, he slapped countries upside the head like Mow whacking Curly to get their attention. Traditional political negotiating is glacial in movement.

Amazon and Walmart look like they are pausing China shipments.

This isn't over by far. It's still going to be Mr Toad's Wild Ride. When Dems say "The Stock Market is down $6T!!!!" that is only for those who punched out; if you didn't sell, you lost nothing. If you are retired, you best be in Bonds/Tbills/Cash and not heavy in Stocks. If you are say 30-50, ride the rough sea.

So when the Markets drop, the Left screams "The Sky is Falling The SKY IS FALLING! TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP" When it goes up, I hear crickets. If you have money in a 401k, the Administrator should be properly managing based on the funds you are in.

The Markets are clearly reacting day-to-day until all this tariff stuff sorts our over the next 3-6 months. Plus, Congress needs to get the Tax cuts made permanent ASAP so people and companies can plan, including no tax on SS, tips and (maybe a long shot) overtime. There will be rules, sure. But for strippers and people who depend on tips, it should be good. Plus it'll be a big no on Socialist Bernie's $17 minimum wage. That's insanity for small businesses especially in rural and small communities. Minimum Wage needs to be a State thing, not Federal.

I figured if anybody was trumpeting the stock market pop today, it would be one of the die-hard MAGA cheerleaders who thinks Trump is smarter than he really is. I was right.

Trump backing down on his tariffs today was a good decision, but it was mainly because of the sharp sell-off in US bonds and his billionaire buddies begging him to avoid an "economic nuclear winter".

Puddy it makes sense to move stuff out of China if you are going to war or suspect them causing issues in the future. But what would be the solution to for example create iphones and nikes at the same quality and cost level they are currently at? The US has minimum wage laws, on top of it immigration restrictions will restrict people entering the country even if they are willing to work at slave labor rates.
That only leaves two solutions, shift manufacturing to another country, except that too could pose problems in some future scenario. So the only option remaining is use robotics to create the iPhone and nike. The start up costs will be high but in the long run they may be even cheaper than paying slave labor rates. anyway tariffs alongside minimum wage laws and restrictive immigration policy arent a good combination, you need to have some leeway in those areas. Im not sure whether robotics could replace cheap labor in every industry anyway

^ You mean like invading Taiwan? Soon, we're not going to have a choice in the matter. Move it to Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, somewhere that isn't a malignant power. Doesn't have to come here.

@mogul1985- There's no shortage of pundits and ideas of what your portfolio should be. Rob Berger puts forth 3 numbers : 115, 128 , and 140. Subtract your age from the 1st number if you feel conservative, the 2nd number if you feel moderate, the last number if you feel aggressive / confident for the percentage of your portfolio that should be in stocks. For a 65 yo, the gauge for stocks is between 50% and 75% depending on your disposition.

More factoids: 100% bond portfolio has never lost money in any 5 year period, 100% stock portfolios have lost money in 1 of 5 5 year periods, ~ 1 in 33 10 yr. periods, never lost money in any 20 yr. period.

Worst year for stocks- 1931 Worst year for bonds - 2022. In data dating back to 1926, a 60/40 portfolio stocks/bonds has only lost money in 2 out dozens of decades studied.

I think Vanguard had a study of differing portfolios performance. (Don't recall the link.). Fidelity has an example of $10K invested in the S&P 500 between 1980 and 2022. The original investor who stayed fully invested throughout the recessions in that period would have a ~ $1M. Those who got nervous and yanked their money out into cash, and jumped back into index when things looked good, missing the best 5 days of the market ( a risk of trying to time the market) would lose 38% ($655K) under those who stayed the course.
Those poor slobs missing the best 30 days would lose 84 % ( only a $171K portfolio) under those who stayed the course.

Sounds like we should watch the news less, and T & A more.

Taiwan is an American proxy not a country

Were the biggest threat to world peace

@minnow Totally agree with the T&A choice 110% of the time!

Wish I had had $10K in 1980 to just salt away, I saw that stat a while back. Interesting.