NMMNG

Didn't read the book. But it makes sense to me. In his book he calls nice guys manipulators and Rick Dugan fits that profile to a tee.

The awesome mansions that nice guys hate getting into relationships or are afraid of commitment because they feel they get lost in those relationships I can concur that's exactly how I feel everytime I get into a serious relationship

* he also mentions...

Damn speech to text

Makes sense - nice guys may often not have the spine to go get what they want - often the only barrier to strip clubs or prostitutes is having the $$$ - this is not to say all guys that visit strip clubs and prostitutes fit this profile but many that do probably fit the profile.

I didn't read the book.

I think to visit upscale strip clubs frequently and if you're spending a significant amount of money banging strippers you have to be moderately successful - not sure how that fits into the nice guy persona.

It's funny because most strippers gravitate to assholes.

I believe that women are a byproduct of being successful and happy.

Some of the "nice guys" seek approval and validation through women. So they develop a certain co-dependency that turns women off. So I could see where options might be limited to SCs, prostitutes, or relationships with women with even less self esteem. The guy don't acknowledge that he has any needs; he doesn't do anything for himself.

I don't think the book gets into this (didn't read it BTW) but the guys that get laid don't do that. Instead that guy has a higher calling or some strong sense of purpose (other than getting laid) and that direction is what is attractive to women. That, and, guys who get laid are *already* getting laid, so the ladies will use social approval in their decision making processes in guys to lay.

When women say, in the next BF I am looking for niceness, what they really mean is kindness.

^ ETA: I think this is crux of why the SW pinks find the guys on the SW or Tuscl forums so *unattractive.* The perception is "getting laid" or "paying for time with a woman" is the sole focus of our lives.

Nice breakdown D77.

One should def be cordial and kind but not a dweeb - and not be fake about it - i.e. one should be cordial and kind by default to everyone not try to "turn it on" in a purely self-serving attempt to try to get a chick to like you - it should be genuine and who you are, not something "you turn on" in certain circumstances when it's convenient - most women will see thru that sooner or later