Comments by Book Guy

Where did the $20,000 figure come from? Seems extravagant. I just did a quick search on Expedia to price out a trip to Pompano Beach FL. Flying MSY-FLL on a Thursday noon-time, returning late-ish on the following Tuesday, five nights' stay at the Residence Inn near Diamond Dolls, direct round-trip flight, room and flight just under $700. That means I could bang eight girls (over-budgeting at $250 each, probably less on some occasions) and still have my trip under $3500 even counting entry fees, drinks, out-of-club meals, and Uber. A full weekend of banging, and I probably wouldn't want to do more than for or five, in the price-range of literally one sixth what this thread inquires about. Why so pricey?

Blowjob extravaganza ... :) A trip to major cities in Western Europe where prostitution is legal and/or so tolerated as to be de-facto legal. Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Antwerp, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Berlin, London. Not sure the exact itinerary. Duration dependent on cost, staying in low-star but full-service hotels (not hostels). First three days in Amsterdam. Window girls, full service, two a day, until I'm all fucked out. All remaining days, two blowjobs a day, alternating a pair of girls daytime and night (as best I can). F.e. Monday, Anna at noon and Bella in evening; Tuesday, Bella at noon and Anna in evening; Wednesday and Thursday two new girls. Take copious notes. Determine Book Guy's European Blowjob Queen. Post reviews here and Ignatz Micer's board. Pics and video or it didn't happen! :)

Though I'm a Progressive (not necessarily a Democrat) I nevertheless can concur with a good deal of what Puddy_Tat just said. The Supreme Court is definitely not supposed to be the "tool" of either Left or Right, and I do see a LOT of left-leaning complaints that the court can no longer be relied on for their agenda. Well duh, and honestly that's a good thing. I want that agenda, but I want it legislated. Just trying to pipe up with cross-the-aisle style agreement whenever I can manage it. :)

Love the Lucy reference. My particular experience also included the dancer saying phrases like "Giggling Island" and "Island of Giggles" as she tried out a few names to see which one sounded right. Also, if she knew there was a Professor, then that fact suggests to me ... umm ... something? Google tells me that the original "Gilligan's Island" series aired from 1964 to 1967, a time when pretty much none of us was yet watching television, though I am familiar with the sit-com, so it would have to have been in re-runs that she (or I) would ever have encountered it. I also know the original series of "Star Trek" (with Shatner and Nimoy, of course) backwards and forwards, 1966 to 1969, but I was similarly too young to have seen it in any form other than re-run syndication.

@Manuellabore If your discussion wants to extend the envelope just a little bit, there are "rub and tug" (generally Asian) massage parlors all over the country, probably in every major city. Do these count as "extras clubs" (as per the original post title) or are they of a different category?

Doesn't this mostly depend on location? I personally would like to be able to say, "Yes, I'm generally expecting to find extras service when I go to a strip club," but that cannot be true where I live, since it's a strong rarity and highly expensive. So I can't truthfully say it, though I would hope for it. When I have gone on monger's trips to Pompano Beach, Toronto, Houston, I always could say quite definitely, "Yes, I'm expecting extras." If I hadn't found them, it would have been specific bad luck and probably not general lack of opportunity. When I stay at home I cannot say as much.

On the subject of abortion, I think the American Left got it wrong back in the 1970s when they attached it to privacy and personal bodily integrity rights. They could perhaps have done better long-term if they had, instead, presented abortion as a business opportunity for small doctor-led clinics nation-wide, and had somehow attached the right to making a profit off of small businesses to the right for a doctor to engage in a profitable medical practice in whatever manner he would choose, unfettered by over-reaching government influence. Make it more like cosmetic surgery for ethically questionable aims, where the perceived "wrong" of an act takes back seat to the potential profit from it.

Maybe it's prevalent on girls who don't strip regularly?

Anybody know if shares in DJT have made it into any managed funds (Money Market funds, etc.) yet? I don't know how to do that kind of investigation. I would like to know what kind of institutional investors are going after it. Not that I'm buying -- no frickin' way I'd put money in DJT, neither of the legal persons involved here, neither the corporation nor the human -- but I'm definitely curious.

I see so many false statements asserted as though they are fact that I am sure Fox News informs this thread. Please, recognize that the combination of "Fox" next to "News" is an oxymoron.

@skibum609 "my pay as an 25k a year in 1983" That amount approximates to $78,500 in 2024 (according to amortization.com). Current average ADA salary is $35,000 in my jurisdiction. Literally less than half what you made. Your own numbers prove your lack of insight.

@Muddy maybe the waitresses will start dancing -- yup good point. Also @Muddy your point about the White House. Yeah, although I vote Left (generally) I'm extremely disappointed in how the Biden administration continues to insist that the economy is doing well. OK OK, so excess corporate profits are indeed at record levels. Now can you please notice the fact that rent and food are literally unaffordable on a standard salary? And that people with two masters degrees are having to share apartments and moonlight? And that the American Dream of owning a home is gone for an entire generation? And that for all these crimes, your excess corporate profits ARE THE CULPRIT?

Toronto.

You're right, that these places are a cultural main-stay. People depend on the Applebee's-type setting for employment and for eating, the whole system is geared around it, the commute and the amount of time spent at work and when the after-school activities start and so forth. Waffle House and IHOP serve kids at a very low price and effectively are after-school baby-sitters in some locations. I wonder if individually owned places will arise to replace them when there is demand. The locally owed diner could make a comeback?

Interesting discussion. @Dolfan says," The fact that you went into that place I can't really see anyone caring about." Well, I am not too worried about it, but then again, I DON'T HAVE A WIFE. But then again, it is true that my basic info is already out there, as you say. Do you guys know about the porn copyright-trolls who were abusing the court system as a means to extort money? They'd figure out how to get a record of the people who were downloading a particular porn producer's content without paying. On behalf of the porn producer, they would simply contact the supposed perpetrators and let them know. "Hey, we have a record that you watched 'Big Tits Number 99' on the internet but you didn't pay us $5.99. We'll tell your wife unless you settle the lawsuit with us." Often they didn't even have to instigate a lawsuit, just threaten to do so, because usually the amount of porn (and maybe the type) was embarrassing enough that any John would want it kept secret. The initial threat usually included a link to an automated website where you could pay "to have your information removed without penalty" or similar. Well, anyway, I could see this kind of info getting out and being similarly used against the Joe's and John's who go to strip clubs. Wouldn't like it.

I'm a Progressive, and politically very anti-Trump. But, I would prefer that he not be found guilty in the current case (Marchand's courtroom NYC, campaign-finance hush-money cover-up payment to Stormy Daniels). And if he is found guilty, I would prefer that he not be sentenced to jail time. For the other cases, I have other preferences. But for this one, it seems too much a technicality. He did it, but was it illegal? He admits to almost everything required for the crime. It's not that he denies doing it. He paid Cohen. Cohen paid Daniels / Clifford. Pecker knew of the payment and got his own payment and agreed with Trump to kill the story. They all together did it for the benefit of the campaign, to increase Trump's likelihood of getting elected. All of this is pretty much undisputed. On the other hand, it's up-in-the-air whether it was truly a quid-pro-quo arrangement, and whether there's really anything wrong with him managing potentially bad press during a campaign. So, the question, mostly, isn't, "did he do it?" The question is, rather, "is what he did illegal?" It sounds to me like he needed a better Campaign Treasurer, who knew how to fill out the bank books more carefully. I personally think that yes, it was illegal (I didn't watch the whole trial) but I also personally think it's way too nigglety-pigglety a technicality, all about which line-item in which ledger matches which other line-item, to put someone in jail. And I'm speaking as a hardcore Left winger. I would probably vote Trotsky if you gave me a chance. Additionally, even if found guilty, I would prefer he not do jail time. I think doing "real hard time" for paperwork technicalities is generally an excessive punishment (except in cases like Madoff and other major swindlers who ruined lives). And I think former Presidents doing hard time for campaign finance fraud is simply a dangerous direction to go. For insurrection? Yes, full Federal prison. For treason? Of course, maybe even execution, depending. (I also don't think Trump's actions on January 6, 2021, rise to the level of treason, BTW.) But State campaign finance misdeeds? Too tenuous. I choose most of this so as not to demean the potential crimes and the potential sentences. A place like Riker's needs to be used only for something major. The punishment needs to fit the crime, and a lesser punishment needs to be levied so that greater punishments can be reserved for greater actions. Thus we don't combine all crimes into one big bucket of "bad," but rather we continue to distinguish among them intelligently. For this reason I'm similarly against Civil-Rights-violation enhancements to longstanding criminal statutes. For example, I don't think the act of killing A BLACK MAN should be punished more stringently than the act of killing ANY human. But some places manage to do the former, including the Federal crime books, by adding on a Civil Rights violation to the murder. Seems to me, this devalues the murder of non-Black people somehow. And remember, I say all this as a Left-wing voter. It's not that I'm apologizing for Trump. I hope that ultimately he gets what he deserves for his fomenting of an insurrection. That should be enough for twenty years in a Federal pen, IMO. I don't see that coming to pass, not in several decades but then again ... it would be nice to tie him up in litigation until he dies, too, now wouldn't it?

During the private lapper, I seek slow and sensual. Up close and personal. If, for example, you have a set of choreographed moves which involve rapid gyrations after X number of grinds or Y number of bends, then you're going to bore me and I'm going to see through your sterile act immediately. But if you warm me up, and then you (seem to) get warmed up with me, I will keep you around for repeat performances to the great benefit of your income. Mumble in my ear, lightly graze my arms or thighs with your fingernails, let me smell your perfume up close, treat me like I'm your boyfriend for three or four minutes. Do not show off the fact that you took Modern and Jazz when you were in Junior College. A kick-line? Jazz hands? A four-square? No thank you. Even amazing flexibility -- legs straight splits, f.e. --seems non-erotic to me, and rather athletic. It's great if you can do it, but it's not SEXY to me. Sexiness, please, not performer-ness. Whether the tops or bottoms come off during the private dance, is more a question of jurisdiction than anything else. In some places, you can't get away with that; in other places it's all but required. I personally probably wouldn't enjoy myself very much if I could not fondle titties and have her fully straddling me, since I have experienced those actions as a standard minimum for all of my lap-dance buying custom for all of my strip-club-attending life, but if that's utterly impossible in a given location I would understand those limitations and not hold a dancer's reticence against her. I just wouldn't buy a lot of dances in that location. During a stage set, I wish to see your body and how you operate it. If you keep clothing on, just because it's a hassle to remove it, then I will sensibly assume you are hiding something hideous underneath that clothing and I will lose interest. If instead you show your body but it turns out to be unappealing to me, you have lost nothing more than my interest which you would have lost in the first place. If you think you are large, you may be instead appealing and muscular. I like supple body types, even if they are mildly non-feminine. Other guys have other preferences. Pole tricks are OK, but not erotic, to me. If you have a great routine on stage, I will notice that you are putting energy into it, but I won't necessarily draw a conclusion that I wish for you to dance privately for me. I think the on-stage performance is mostly for me to simply assess whether or not your body-type is adequate to turn me on, and therefore adequate for me to want private dances. You could turn me off. For example, being utterly clumsy, or moving in a derogatory or excessively trashy way, may turn me off. Otherwise, as long as you manage a gentle gyration and perhaps some slinky or sultry demeanor, I don't really mind what you do on stage. Your outfit is almost entirely beside the point. Pick what flatters your body type best, and then wear six-inch platform heels along with it. It doesn't matter if the tops match the bottoms, if the ribbons match the shoes, if the purse is the right one for the outfit. A plain bikini and platforms is enough. No more effort is required. Any greater effort expended, is for you to compare yourself to the other girls in the club. The guys mostly won't notice at all. Is that a school-girl outfit or a bo-peep outfit or a manga-girl outfit? I don't know, I don't care, I can't see your tits if you keep that top on no matter what the outfit. Presuming your body passes muster, then it's up to your talk. Your conversation with me at table-side afterwards will determine whether or not I'm going to start to spend on private dances. If you've done poorly in school, please do not make stuff up about an education that you do not have. You will not fool most educated men, into thinking you're educated, if you're not. Being genuine, and seeing the humor in the situation, will be much more appealing. Furthermore, appealing is, nearly always, a LOT less body fat than most women tend to assume. To be "normal" or "big boned" or "athletic" or "strong" or ... ANYTHING other than rather small ... is to be "fat," which I find unappealing. Most men do. The discussion of "how fat is too fat" will go on long into the night. Rest assured, the cutoff point is MUCH LESS THAN YOU THINK IT IS.

I see corporate feed-o-raunts struggling but higher-end individual-chef restaurants here in touristy New Orleans are doing the same as ever, it seems. Tourism is down generally, but within the tourist sector, the restaurant sub-sector isn't doing particularly worse than any other sub-sector. I wouldn't shed much of a culinary tear if Applebee's went out of business, though I did condescend to a Boston Market once in a while. Part of what they could do to stave off their economic difficulties would be, to stop bilking their staff so miserably that they have such rapid turnover (since their business model seems universally to have assumed quite wrongly that table-waiting can be treated as a non-skilled entry-level position); and maybe after that mind-bending innovation, they could also start serving good food. But that's probably too much to ask.

IMO it's part of the breakdown of civil society. People haven't grown up with the notion that cooperation is a civic duty. Somehow they get the idea, instead, that because "it's a free country" that means they get to "do what I want" regardless of its impact on other people. Ask the woman who is blocking the checkout line while she stands around to talk on her phone, could she move over so the rest of us can get to the cash register, please, but she replies, "I know my rights" and doesn't budge. No, lady, you DON'T know your rights, that's just an expression you use for, "I intend to be selfish." This thread identifies the problem in terms of driving but I see it all over. I think Right and Left are equally guilty, in different ways -- MAGA idiots wanting to break the law and overturn the Constitution because it's "good for the country" to have a violent insurrection (what country? the one you eliminated in the name of improving it?) and Woke idiots wanting to command everyone to be just like them because it's "good for the country" to increase supposed-"tolerance" (what tolerance? of the people you were just now intolerant toward?). The social contract, abstractly speaking, gathers together the traditions of Western democracies into a simple idea. You can't engage in whatever action you want, if that action infringes on OTHER people's right to engage in whatever action THEY want. You have to COMPROMISE. Otherwise you don't get to live in civilized society. Often we have laws that lay out the specific preferred manner of compromise -- upholding your end of a contract, keeping right on the road when you're going slow, not shooting others in the head even though they may piss you off -- but even in the absence of explicit rules, it's still our duty to infer the implicit rules and abide by them. I remember being told all of this, in pretty clear terms, several times over, during the course of my schooling. I had grade-school religion class, which wasn't really about religion, it was about doing the right thing. I had junior-high level general history, and full-fledged US history in high school, in both of which we read smatterings of Locke and Rousseau and talked about this or that obvious concept. I had a Civics class, where we were supposed to be indoctrinated into the wonders of a Bicameral Legislature and of Separation of Powers, and a lot of that was all about civil society. It wasn't all that high-falutin', since I didn't really attend very good schools, mostly; they were just run-of-the-mill. My experience was typical, though -- everybody my age knows about this Social Contract thing. Not any more. Who let these idiots out of Middle School?

Depends on the context. Dancers in the city where I live definitely can differentiate themselves through conversation skill and negotiation tactics, and there aren't really a large number of women who are doing (what might be called) committed companionship (dancing and/or ITC, OTC, escorting, Sugar-Baby-ing, etc.) without any other source of income other than what their allure exacts from males for gratifying sexual desires of some level. Here, "just show up" tactics will get very low reward, to the point that it's probably more lucrative for any such dancer to leave right away and stop paying the club fees. They have to push harder than that. Other cities have other requirements. The OP's reviews indicate he probably hails from the Atlanta area. There are, as I understand it, a lot of spur-of-the-moment ITC arrangements in that city, so maybe if you calculate that most dancers are gaining income on that basis there, then perhaps "just show up" is really all they're doing. Thus the OP's theory perhaps holds true, that all they have to do is, be there, look good, make an exchange of dollars for services, consider that a day's work, and go home. And I disagree with the whole premise. It sounds to me like the OP is trying to put some moral higher or or lower status on certain types of market activity, and to use rather vague words ("hustler" in particular) in exactingly specific definitions, definitions he has come up with and intends for the rest of us to adhere to. People with complex skills who engage in long-term planning, somehow, according to him, are lesser or greater than people with nothing but appealing body types. And the ones we do or don't approve of, we must be careful to refer to only with his definition of the word "hustler." It's a strange top-down approach to observation of human nature, in which the OP feels there is somehow a right or wrong to sex-related work and the vocabulary that attends it. What would he do if I said I'm on the down low. But not that way. And she got some sugar but not babying. Dap dat. Does he approve or disapprove? Is it worth abiding by his ruling?

New Orleans has some extremely skinny girls, thin to the point of skinnier-than-a-spinner. They almost inevitably are of light-skinned probably European descent and seem to come from smaller country-town type locations. I do not speculate here as to the reason for their skinniness but I certainly have my theories.

Another point, can this be compared to boob-jobs? I personally am very turned off by "bolt-on" tits -- large fake breasts, designed to look perfectly spherical and fake-ish. I know that I don't like the look simply by looking, and thanks to negative experience at strip clubs I also know that I don't like the feel. I almost 100% require that any dancer I have a lapper from, will have natural tits, or at least if her tits are surgically enhanced, then I would insist that they be subtle to the point of "not seeming like fake tits" fake tits. I admit, there are some porn-starlets who pull off the fake-tit look and manage to please me, f.e. Rikki Sixx and Jessie Rogers, but I haven't yet hit on any club dancers that successfully cross that line for me. So, if I find bolt-ons unappealing, should I inform the dancer? Anyone have (as per original post) "how to subtly convey" my opinion that fake tits are inherently "fucking ugly as shit"? /sarcasm ... maybe

Strip clubs demand is not exactly needs-based (it can feel like it) but rather wants-based (hierarchy of needs would put several things before strip-clubbing, f.e., food and shelter and then other false-necessities of typical urban living living like car insurance and attractive shoes etc.). Nevertheless the bad sales tactics of strippers often surprise me. On the subjects of garlic breath, dirty fingernails, torn or merely casual clothing, ratty shoes, being sick and sneezing all over the place, smelling heavily of the weed they're toking in the dressing room, being so stoned or high they can't connect sentences, smelling of farts and other body odor, I just want to ask, "are you so frickin' clueless?" I think some guys put tattoos and piercings in that same category. I personally think tattoos and piercings are not necessarily in the same clueless-idiot category but I can see why some guys have that kind of reaction to them. Maybe it's from her civilian life. If she sports a great deal of piercings or tattoos, she probably made the decisions to get those things at a time when she was not thinking about maximizing her stripper income. Similar with shaved-head looks, f.e. the half-side-shave and the butch-but-dangly looks if you can guess what I mean. Those choices (and many related others) of style preference, are decisions generally made without considering the potential impact on stripping income. So I figure there really are two categories to talk about, when you're talking about strippers' stylistic choices. One group, are dancers who choose to appear the way that will increase stripper income. Another group, are those who choose on the basis of a large portion of their life that is not stripping -- girls who want to look edgy (or whatever other crazy idea crops up in their purdy li'l haids) so they get a lot of tattoos and piercings and head shaves, and THEN later also add onto their life the fact that they strip at a club. With this second group, the look isn't designed for maximizing stripper success, but rather, it's chosen for getting a certain appeal in OTHER parts of their life. You can sometimes see an edge-girl trying to become a demure-girl, wearing bo-peep or schoolgirl outfits (the juxtaposition can be sexy, depending on how she pulls it off and what a given customer's preferences are) even though their hairstyle really doesn't make sense with that outfit. Other edge-girls don't try to be demure girls. It might be interesting to try to watch a transition over say a six-month period as f.e. a girl leaves home for the first time, at first with all the piercings and shavings baggage that got her in with the cool boys at her high school or junior college, getting a job dancing, but then slowly figuring out and trying to implement a new hairstyle and some other accoutrement adjustments. Or maybe not figuring it out ... A dancer who really does choose to maximize her income, and makes some longer-term planning decisions based on that, will start observing the men in her target market and figuring out how to cater to us. If she really is making her most money from men who prefer the edgy look, then it's a smart choice on her part, to cultivate the edgy look. However, my guess is, there aren't a lot of guys in the edgy-crowd who are spending well on strippers. The spenders are other guys, men who have disposable income and a certain shall-we-say libertarian (small-L) bent. Depending on the city and the night of the week and so forth, the money is probably coming from the 40 to 50 something solo males with professional office-bound corporate jobs (or job-settings). The looks of the dancer need to be what THAT GUY wants. Same probably applies to the music choices as well, although personally I don't often decide on whether or not I prefer a dancer on the basis of what noise is going on in the context around her. If there's any type of pop or rock music that I would like to listen to, it's certainly not what I'm hearing at strip clubs. The clubs are playing something that I guess is crunk or rap or hard-ass or butch-bang or something else I don't know how to name. The music choices are probably made by the DJ and management on the basis of what they think their customers most prefer, and (highly important) buy drinks during. If the music can match the sound of a good lap-dancing song as well, that's probably just good luck, an added unintended benefit after the decision was made.

Book Guy -- asks what he thinks is a legitimate question. Conservatives -- respond by calling Book Guy stupid and then hollering about how everything is obvious, without stating clear or obvious things, and listing several other things that piss them off that aren't germane to the original question. Liberals -- respond by calling the conservatives stupid and then listing tons of stuff that begin to seem both clear and obvious. Book Guy -- starts to realize the real answer to his question ...

whoops interesting the at-sign-text-dot makes an unwanted link doh

@Call.Me.Ishmael Thanks for that clarification. I suspected as much but didn't know it was as explicit and cynical as that. Makes more sense now.

Pics and videos or it didn't happen.

@sinclair "The current administration seems to be doing everything in its power to devalue the dollar." I don't understand this comment. Not trolling just asking for clarification. I would have guessed that traditional conservatives would have liked the fact that corporate profits are way way up to record levels and stock prices are soaring. Investors and people with enough of a nest egg to survive the inflation would be happy with the growth. The people who would complain about this economy, I would guess, would be the lower classes living paycheck to paycheck, whose rent and food bills are skyrocketing. They have no up-side to this economy since they aren't wealthy enough to invest (much) in the stocks that are soaring. I personally think that Biden's continual claims, that the economy is going well, are idiotic from both points of view. He'll lose the poor people's vote because he demonstrates his utter inability to empathize with their inability to afford necessities, but he'll also lose the rich people's vote because he fails to demonstrate the necessary obeisance to the corporate overlords. Or so I would have guessed. Instead I keep seeing something that I can only translate as, "The economy is going great and it's all Biden's fault" and that just sounds like a contradiction to me. "People don't want to work any more" say the right wingers, in the face of record-low unemployment. "Eat the rich" say the left wingers, in the face of record high opportunity for investment by the little guy. What do I not understand? I'm not looking for what is the RIGHT way (in anyone's personal opinion) to analyze our current economic status or Biden's claims. You're unlikely to convince me to not claim to be a Progressive. I value some of the small-government stand of a traditional Republican, but I value the human-rights and social-betterment record of the traditional Democrats. I hate the Woke culture, it's ruining the Democrats' chances, I don't generally associate Biden with woke-ism though I do recognize that he does kowtow to them for votes, and I won't in any way brook support of Trump as an alternative, given that I believe he is clearly guilty of obvious treason. I'm not sure which is worse for our country, the bullshit of the Wokes or the violence of the Christian Nationalists and insurrectionists. So, don't try to convince me to join. Instead, I'm looking for explanations of why both sides consistently contradict themselves. What do I not know about College Economics 101 (I almost dropped that course, back when I was in college, BTW, because the Professor kept doing what I thought was contradicting himself quite similarly; eventually I took it pass-fail and got the pass, and since I did well in college with high grades in everything else, this particular class still stands out as an oddity on my transcript and suggests to me that I was, indeed, correct about the Professor). Anyway ... looking forward to non-partisan explanation. If anyone wants to bother.

Holy crap this thread is two years old WTF why did Xavialcala2020 resurrect it doh my bad

Good choice to pass on the FKK world. Those things are exhausting. I made a monger's trip through several of the FKKs of the Western part of Germany, basically the areas that I could easily travel to from my bases in the Netherlands and then Frankfurt. I always had high-minded intentions of doing at least two girls at each FKK and visiting two different establishments in three or four days, but I would always crash and lose my zip sooner than I had intended. Getting there is longer and more boring than you ever predict, since they're all out in the "countryside" in some manner or other; and the whole log-in process, getting approved, paying cover charge, then getting acquainted with the surroundings, and maybe eating and drinking, it wears on you. Then you have to save enough energy to get OUT of the "countryside" and back to your hotel or wherever. I practically couldn't drive the car on one evening, my thighs were worn out because I'd gone whole-hog at the first place I went after my plane landed and sessioned with three girls over the course of a whole day there. I don't mean that I couldn't drive the car, in the funny way, like it was mildly tiring. I mean it was physically nearly impossible and therefore traffic-wise it was very dangerous, but I had to get back home to the hotel in Frankfurt and that was more than an hour away. Also, if you get to a FKK and pay the entry charge and then you don't like the line-up, so what, you have to screw one of those girls in the line-up anyway. Better be OK with ageing saggy big-bellied Dominicanas. I'm planning a monger's trip to Antwerp some day soon, I think. Little known mongering destination, off the beaten path. My recent thought about a new monger's Holy Grail was going to be Kiev or elsewhere in Eastern Europe (I hear Latvia is great!) but the war situation has put a dang kibosh on all that.

@wallanon Interesting view, seems you've redirected your energy to OTC. I wonder if I'll move in that direction. I personally find that I really value ITC, particularly for the comparison aspect. I really liked being able to see a line up of beauties AND PICK AMONG THEM. This was enjoyable to me similarly in the Red Light Districts of European cities, where I could stroll past umpteen girls in the Kamer or window and pick one girl slowly by comparison, or even pick none of them for that period of time. I didn't like comparing and picking from a website -- Eros, or another escorts-compendium site, f.e. -- half as much, partly because the girls won't be actually at my door for several hours (or days!) after I do the picking and choosing. I also just value the experience of being in the "anonymous" zone of strip-club patron. I'm in a room with blinking lights, nobody knows my real name, I can make people go away or come over here automatically just by asking for it, I have no agenda, I have no place to be. The thing that bugs me the ABSOLUTE MOST is when a girl invades my space but is unwanted (that much is excusable, it's her job, I'll tip her and politely decline, maybe get her the drink if that's the way her club needs her to operate) and then fails to depart (that is inexcusable). The fact that this is my maximal annoyance, indicates to me that it contradicts my main reason for being there, and thus helps me identify what that reason is -- solitude. I am a rock. I am an island. Solitude with tits, please. If I were after the OTC experience I believe I might indeed do it like you do. But I guess you can see why I'm still into the strip clubs, since it's a type of modification on the ITC experience that I'm seeking. To each his own!

All the "rules" about the "right" and "wrong" way to interact. I never understood them and always saw right through them, at the same time. The "right" way to act, is whatever way the girl personally wants, and whether or not you DID act "right," is whether or not the girl wants to give her random capricious approval. She withholds approval to feel powerful. She randomizes it to demonstrate her femininity. If you hold the door and you're a hot rich guy, then it's gentlemanly to hold a door. If you hold the door and you're a nebbish creeper, then it's presumptuous and anti-feminist to hold a door and you're only doing it to try to get laid. I'm glad I'm not in the dating pool any more and I feel like I dodged a bullet by never getting married. I felt sorry for myself when I was of more traditional dating age, and really did want to master some of those "rules" so that I could get laid more often by hotter women. I didn't marry, largely because I didn't like the hotness level of the women I did date. I was always thinking, "Well, if only she'd fucking BOTHER to please a man a little bit, I'd actually be pleased with her." Joke's on them now.

@Muddy "I feel like it's just set up to buy drinks and wait for 4 hours while staring into space." Absolutely. My local club has long stints in which one or two girls work, the DJ tries to string the customers along, he somehow always makes it seem like someone is just about to be on stage right away. It surprises me how few dancers they can get to reliably work -- I would have expected that in this economy there'd be a lot more untalented untrained young women trying to get cash through low-skill low-entry occupations, but I haven't seen an increase in the stable of women dancing at any of my local clubs. The selection is poor, more poor than I ever remember, though with a few ups and downs, and it has been generally declining since about 2005 or so.

I'm a big fan of cash. In Europe they have this thing called the "Knip" (German and Dutch for "chip" or "button"). It's a chip on the face of your ATM card. Onto it, you can add small amounts directly from your bank account, and then when you reach the cash register you simply direct-deposit from the Knip to the register. It is a non-tracked direct-cash transaction but done with virtual money. If you lose your ATM card, people still don't have access to your bank account unless they know your PIN to be able to log in, but they DO have access to whatever amount resides directly on the Knip, for it requires no further security. So people load a little bit, like $100 worth at a time, for quick transactions. The Knip thus provides both a security feature and a sub-set of your bank account, making register speed much better. When I was last in Europe the USA didn't even have the security feature of chips, yet. At least we've caught up with that part.

It's hilarious to me that anyone might think the ultra-wealthy are the ones who "contribute." (A little ranting about "illiterate foreigners" and the true stripes of that commenter are soon revealed.) In the past, the top marginal tax rate has been in the 90% range. But now we're letting the ultra-wealthy slide while the middle class is squeezed. The American Dream will be utterly inaccessible to entire generations thanks to nothing other than unnecessary hoarding at the top. I say take a good quarter-billion from Elon (and others), don't worry, poor little rich boy won't "suffer" with "only" a few hundred million in his pocket (and he didn't contribute JACK SHIT). If we tax fairly, much more progressively (in the technical sense) than we do now, and curtail excess government social welfare spending at the same time, we'd have the resources to fix these school problems. I do agree, the inner-city schools are already usually well-funded and abysmally managed and they often lack deeply invested parents and communities. I started out my participation in this thread by stating that I think the uneducated are worse at educating their own children than are the educated, and by hinting that I've moved toward favoring school choice, in fact (you can see my statements without even clicking; all you have to do is scroll; though this may be a challenge for an "illiterate foreigner" and a few other participants in this thread), so it's not like I disagree on all the fundamentals. Tax the rich. Or eat them. Also the woke. There should be a rich-tax and a woke-tax. That would solve some things. You can usually identify the rich by the zeroes on their tax returns. And you can always identify the woke by their hair.

Everybody bitches about taxes but almost everybody also bitches about not getting what they want from government services (including school boards). Collection of a mere 1% of all the "unpaid" (i.e. calculated on the basis of what "seems right") taxes on the super-wealthy's top bracket would easily solve all these problems.

A recent new-find hottie I was getting a lapper from did the thong-removal-move. It's where she leans back while straddling my lap, until her head is level with her butt, then reaches to her waist and pulls her thong to the side. I recall the view was explicit and kind of off-putting for me, almost too garish. I know it's supposed to be sexy but I didn't really feel it at the time ...

I knew it would be a poor (and literal-minded) translation, I was asking more for the punch-line value. :) In similar vein, I received this book when I was in High School. Quite exciting, it included plenty of curse words. Too bad it was for German. https://www.amazon.com/gimmick-Gesprochenes-Deutsch-Adrienne/dp/0393044505/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.tq3DD17vJS7KFmzcxyZDFWg0_Oj7pBw92A8RXzxSpdYkPuDF4IKdfBjzehiQLCgr0Rdd5VVZdZe5RnOrIR5wlSEr8aKW9pR0tKNQGoMTAHUg50eIg2wlv3mjsYNpJNHAqJ2b8Jn6DVCzH-zbk3YWP8TdWhUI6OUCDPkvYSpnq8MO3dIAP6_k29rxKxxbMXwPIO7KkMYBDKRB3Q2C3b0stBJIwcB8eHSpvPtNS09wXTU.W0o7E3szjwyfppvu6y_Y7Cx5Fi-la4hgV5Cb6dGoaiY&dib_tag=se&qid=1716414385&refinements=p_27%3AAdrienne+Penner&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Adrienne+Penner

The other thread is here ... https://tuscl.net/discussion/84957#comment1359006

@5footguy ROFL well played ... I think? :)

I used to ascribe to the typical Liberal view that public schools are good for democracy, and I still believe that uneducated parents are less able to educate their children on their own than are well educated parents. So I generally would object to the use of school-tax dollars for private-school purposes (the so-called "voucher" system) because I just viewed it as yet more undercutting of the social-welfare net that I view as necessary for a functioning society. But when I hear from school boards and many teachers, I am just stunned at the low low low ... LOW ... level of intelligence exhibited. I mean, I can't really justify sentencing young people to incarceration in schoolrooms for extended hours every day with those idiots.

Would a good Spanish speaker please evaluate the following from Google Translate? hey baby let's fuck; how much to suck on your tits; blowjob first; no condom; do you deep french kiss = Hola nena, vamos a follar; cuanto chuparte las tetas; mamada primero; sin condón; ¿Tienes un beso francés profundo? also one hundred, not five hundred = cien, no quinientos

Stupid frickin' idea. Everybody knows that the complete opposite is true.

Baumholder is home of the Rheinland-Pfalz US Army Garrison. I wondered why there would be a "table-dance bar" anywhere in Germany, since the rest of the country gives ready access to full-service prostitution, as, it's tolerated to the point of legal. The Bahnhofsviertel in Frankfurt is a quick two-hour drive, I wouldn't waste my time getting suckered for mere lappers in bumble-back Baumholder unless there was a good reason to stay right next to the base ...

OK fair enough, I shouldn't have announced the blanket generalization, the manner I said it is way too absolute, therefore false. I agree, plenty of strip-club-experienced men do wear jeans. Two TUSCL members, above, prove exactly that. :( But I do recommend that you not wear jeans. Those of you who are strip-club-experienced and still in blue jeans, I suggest you give the Cool 18s (or similar) a try! :)

Calice, tabernacle, baptème, Jérusalem ... many accoutrements of the Catholic church are curse words in Québécois. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-mysterious-holy-swearwords-of-quebec_b_59e10abde4b003f928d5e67d

OK seriously, it heavily depends on the club. Amateurs, yeesh! Some choices are not club-determined. For example, typical blue jeans are a bad choice generally, regardless of the club. They're much too thick and bulky for the patron's enjoyment and they're much too rough and abrasive for the dancer. Men in jeans at strip clubs are men who don't regularly go to strip clubs. Other choices are more club-dependent. People insisting on one type of shorts or pants may be offering advice that is only good in some clubs but totally rejected by other clubs or other dancers. Thin "basketball shorts" can be excellent or can be idiotic, depending on the club. Places with a dress code or where dancers hold themselves out to be "classy" will frown on that type of dress because it looks like you are there for a handjob. Even if you ARE there for a handjob, well, some dancers and clubs will still prefer that you not LOOK like you're there for a handjob. Similarly, sweatpants and workout-gear can also go awry, depending on the club. I have a pair of "parachute pants" that do very well in some venues but are out of place in other venues. So, this whole oeuvre of basketball shorts type clothing is OK in some places and not OK in other places. For casual but dressy, if you're rejecting the basketball-shorts oeuvre, I recommend (see post above) Haggar brand Cool 18 slacks. They look dressy, have a permanent crease and cuff, are machine-washable and easy to dry on permanent-press cycle, have button-closed back pockets for adequate security, have a smooth plastic non-abrasive non-intrusive front zipper and plastic button-top, and -- most important -- are rather thin and extremely soft to the touch. Dancers do not complain, and my willy does not complain. Finally ... @5footguy "If you are capable of jizzing in your pants from a LD, there's zero chance your dick has felt the walls of a vagina in the past 3 years." You're obviously an amateur.

another similar thread is going on about this subject right now, I just posted there some of my reminiscences

My knowledge is dated. Interesting how things change. All the below is reminiscence, not useful for planning a current trip. (For those of you unfamiliar with Florida geography, Tampa proper is in Hillsborough County, which is East of Tampa Bay; Pinellas County is the "thumb" which cuts the Bay off from the rest of the Gulf of Mexico, so cities such as St. Petersburg and Clearwater in Pinellas are West of the Bay, and the Bay in turn is ((mostly)) West and South of Tampa. Pasco County is North of any of the above, the "base of the thumb".) I lived in Pinellas from about 1998 to about 2006 give or take. Part of that time I was working out of State, but mostly I was based there and attending clubs throughout the Tampa Bay area. I moved away, my life entered a new phase, and then for a brief part of 2017 I went back for a longer-term work stint, about four months off and on. During this stint in 2017 of course I re-attended my old haunts, also established myself at new haunts, and furthermore took dedicated monger's trips to Pompano Beach twice. In the Tampa Bay area there has generally been a split between "clean" and "dirty" sides of the Bay, but they've flip-flopped over the years. During the 2000-2006 range, the full-service opportunities were in Hillsborough County (Tampa side). There were full-service massage-parlors and lingerie-modeling places galore in certain parts of Tampa, and the strip clubs were high-mileage generally. Although in some of Tampa proper, there was a rule about alcohol-or-nudity (if the club served alcohol then the girls wore pasties, so, if you wanted to see nudity, the laws REQUIRED that you drive drunk LOL) nevertheless you could find extremely high quality women at many of the clubs and could secure high-mileage and ITC service reliably at reasonable prices with people who would generally be considered young and appealing beauties. Mons Venus and Space Odyssey 2001 were "flagship" experiences, really just silly tourist traps, but these were also the glory days of Tanga, Ybor Strip, Lipstixx, and the neighborhood known as Drew Park (I recall a TUSCL member with that as his user-id). I attended and reviewed. This was my most prolific period of TUSCL participation. I was addicted to these many venues and remember writing a lot of reviews about them, but I don't see those reviews appearing in my profile so I'm guessing that I had a different TUSCL ID back then or the database doesn't properly "find" them. My "local" club, closest to my house in Pinellas, I could still easily find on a map (if it weren't long since closed) but can't find it in the TUSCL records at all. Then when I returned in 2017 I was surprised to learn that Tampa had cleaned up but Pinellas had dirtied up. Those of you reading recent reviews may note where the service opportunities are, and may get the impression that Tampa is more for prudes. I'm pretty sure the reviews will be accurate, so, don't trust my judgment on those scores, just exhaust your VIP TUSCL opportunities! During my stint in 2017 I did attend Oz and Diamond Dolls (Pinellas) several times, and several other clubs, and had read that Atlantis would be a sure-fire ITC opportunity. But I found all those, and other Pinellas clubs, and the Pasco clubs, mostly disappointing. The good old days of the early 2000s had not, for me, been adequately replicated in 2017 on the other side of the Bay. I found Pinellas 2017 a disappointment relative to Hillsborough 2005. On my trips to Pompano 2017 I did experience the Cuban full-service that is described in reviews here. I was gratified to learn that, at least somewhere on the planet, the proper attitude was being maintained. I compare all clubs to Fantasia, Richmond Hill, near Toronto, Ontario, Canada, mid-1990s. If you don't know you'll never know. :) Pompano's Diamond Dolls was as close as I've come to that experience, excepting trips outside the USA, ever since then. I see a comment or two here about how Pasco will fill the bill. If it's anything like what I experienced in 2017 you'll be scraping the bottom of the barrel but you MIGHT be able to enjoy yourself. To the contrary, I think Pompano will be guaranteed high flying. I trust you'll view these comments of mine as mildly uninformed -- as I said, I haven't been there for seven-ish years now -- so, avail yourself of recent reviews. Ah me, I miss the good old days. Fantasia, of course; but also Ybor when it wasn't yet a Scarlett's, and the Tanga's hard-backed hotel-banquet-room chairs, and the weird back rooms with extra secret wall panels at Lipstixx, and mi favorita one, two, three, and four, Brazilians and Cubans and even a few Irish-American beauties at the lingerie places. Driving the bridges late at night ...

Usually older is better in terms of service. Generally older is not much worse in terms of feel. Sometimes you really hit it off with younger, but that's a rarity. I suggest you seek a mildly eccentric but really physically fit medium-older dancer. Judging on the basis of her looks, is she more fit than some of the women who are younger than her? There was one in Tampa who rode a unicycle for a circus. She was all handjobs, she couldn't keep her hands off my dick. She turned out to be pushing 40 but I had no complaints about her body so I didn't care about her age-digits either. If you find someone who is into weird chakra and kundalini, she may also object to poisonous substances and therefore be less likely to have drug issues. Maybe. Yoga is good too. The trick here is that you find a person who, for a long-ish period of her life, has generally treated her body as the temple where you wish to worship and it shows. Her skills should be of the nurse-variety -- knows how to minister to the benefit of bodily fluids -- and her body should be of the athlete-variety, and her social interaction needs to be of the type than can handle the shallow and immediate. So you want a yoga flake.

For me, the more it's ghetto the worse it is. Similarly, the more rap the worse. I prefer tuneful rock tending toward pop. If I'm in a crunk-ghetto club I will expect crunk-ghetto music, on the premise that this is the sort of music the clientele prefers. Ideally, the DJ would have the good sense to play whichever songs cause customers to enjoy themselves spend the most money on dancers. Usually the DJ is much stupider than that. I have even heard that some DJs take requests from the dancers and play the actual songs which the dancers ask for, without question and without regard for the clientele.

@rickthelion ROFL yes I'm a werewolf. PS should I call you RicktheApe or ApetheLion?

I concur with the original poster. It's been going on since 2005 or so. I think a lot of what he's saying is simply, "girls don't know how to be pleasing" to men any more. I get sick of the ghetto-shake-ass moves, I really hate it when girls just sit on their phones and avoid interaction with customers (me!) (though I know I don't have a "right" to demand that she does her job the way I want her to do her job, I still would really LIKE it if more of them would do their jobs the way I want them to do their jobs!), they're just poor at being COURTESANS. Many could try out novel ideas such as learning to converse, not frenetic and obsessive, also not glum and drab, just balanced and sweet (or, don't get the customers' money), learning to approach politely and take rejection equally well, and have the bodies and body-types that customers want (or, don't get the customers' money). Once at Mons Venus (Tampa, duh) I instinctively, automatically, pro-actively tipped a dancer an extra $20 before she ever gave me a lap dance. All for a witticism about her tattoo. It was a picture of a rose, which, she said, "goes with my two lips." She wins. With that one comment she gained the extra price of a lap-dance for nothing, plus the right to start giving me more lap-dances. She looked excellent, though not a "dime." She smiled. She had little to no extra body-fat. She was lithe and supple, slightly muscular but slightly soft. She stick-shifted, some-what, but not so much as to change the nature of the interaction from lappers to "gets him off under covers during a lapper". She made me laugh and made me horny. She was not my all-time-favorite nor even someone I would have returned to seek out on a second night. She was just good. I suspect she made a lot of money, with only a very little detriment to her "self-esteem." She did not have shaved head, did have shaved pussy, and did not tell me her alternative pronouns. All the weird sociology commentary above is part of it, yes. Tattoos (which I personally don't dislike very much) and shaved heads (which freak me out and auto-limp-erize my dick), lack of male dominant figures, the abject stupidity of insisting on they/it/whatsit pronouns, the pseudo-lezbo of GenZ, etc., all these factors do play some role. But I only think they're minor parts of the equation, perhaps symptoms not causes. IMO it's not about sociology, it's about economics. (OK OK so the two are related but you know what I mean.) Prostitution and its related fields will probably never die out. (At least, not until human genetic engineering has gone a MUCH longer way to changing our species than has happened recently or currently promises to happen.) The heterosexual male's interest in interaction with hot young women and in access to their sex-related services remains about at the same level as it ever has been (though perhaps some of you disagree, and think that GenZ's "weak boys" don't seek out hot girls any more? OK, maybe ... convince me). IMO the definition of what constitute "hot" and "young" (or otherwise desirable) women have not changed much, either. We like them a bit more zaftig or a bit more twiggy, depending on the decade; otherwise it's all within a rather strict norm. It is not dying out. But the related sub-field of strip-clubbing IS dying out, IMO. Here are some of the things that are changing. The women involved are less attractive to the men, generally speaking. The venues and locales to draw in customers are less common, less prevalent. The transactions themselves take place less often. Although the per-capita rate of males who are seeking to pay for sexual or strip-club-style services is probably the same as it ever was, yet the similar per-capita ratio of males who DO successfully buy those services falls consistently lower and lower. Nowhere to do it, no way to do it, inadequate supply and inadequate liquidity despite adequate demand. The market has changed. The market(s) for ALL optional services collapsed in 2008-2009, but then never returned. Perhaps a demand for something akin to strip-clubbing remains but the specific market of strip-clubbing itself isn't filling that demand now. Some would claim guys want less services. The anti-GenZ and anti-Millennial noise out there suggests that those boys don't want to interact with those girls. I disagree. I think heterosexual males still desire the same amount of services, probably, but locations and situations don't cater to that demand through strip-clubbing. Lots of major factors involved in this economic shift -- -- Other outlets: Young women can get money in other sexy ways that are still vaguely related to the category of prostitution, such as via internet performing on TikTok and OnlyFans. -- Better alternatives: Demographic shift allows female employment in more traditional fields. Ongoing since AD 1920 or so, young women have growing market power to gain income in more traditional ways, and mildly greater long-term hopes of having standard non-prostitution-related careers. -- Pricing out of the market: for example, the cost of a lapper keeps going up, the level of service of a lapper does not go up, the level of demand for a lapper remains the same or drops, and the amount of disposable income for optional purchases drops. -- Death of cash economy: we use cards and numbers on the internet and at the checkout for everything else. I cannot recall the last time I bought anything at all with cash, except at a strip club, for entry, drinks, dancer tips, lap dances, and dancer services. I only go to the ATM when I'm going to the strip club. People are unfamiliar with those green sheets of paper. Solutions? One thought: cheaper lappers. The demand is there AND THE SUPPLY IS THERE. Dancers, IMNSHO, generally are willing to do the following. Honestly, if we want to bring strip clubs back to what they were in the middle-1990s (roughly), what needs to happen is the return of the dollar grind. Remember those days? Thirty women cycling through the room, every man with his chair rolled back from the table, half-a-song for a dollar, then the DJ yells "change" and the girls move to the next guy. Three songs (six half-songs) and then "special" price on lappers in the private rooms. Shazam we're all going back there with whoever is in our lap ... So, I think a five-dollar type performance of this kind would generate a LOT of revenue for the dancers who otherwise don't make much at all on a slow night. Another thought: maybe if the economy gets to where it really stinks (it's moving that way right now) the more enterprising attractive young women will realize that income their present from internet-performing is much lower than a potential income from in-person performing. Perhaps it is just that we haven't fallen far enough. So this thread is about two things. A. Dearth of desirable looks and behavior in the women, falling standards at clubs. B. Changes in market dynamics.

The search will reveal Haggar Cool 18s.

Pictures and videos or it didn... oh fuck it did.

The problem is how you define "indigenous" (and other related concepts). If a family owned and lived in house for two thousand years but a buncha UN-sponsored people arrived (with guns) to demand the land because they had been there four thousand years ago, who gets priority? Which time period is the "right" one to re-establish? (I'm not personally trying to support either side, BTW; I remain agnostic like the OP above.) Zealots on both sides tend to holler a lot about their "right" to be here or there on the basis of temporal precedence without really addressing the fact that every tribe has moved about from its homeland in every location on our planet at every age. If not, then, well, I hereby claim that I own the entire nation of Mali, or at least most of Timbuktu, since that's near where Y-chromosomal Adam is supposed to have resided and, after all, I'm descended from him. That's a temporal question. There are similar geographic problems, f.e. how small or large must a group be, in order for it to be defined as a single coherent ethnic group? In the Balkans it's a consistent question -- the Serbs were in charge over everyone else up to about 1480 AD, the Turks at other times, sometimes groups adopted and cooperated with the power over them, sometimes groups disliked that power but were forced to cooperate, sometimes they actively rebelled. Which group and which location and which time period is the right one to define as "where our people are from"?

Early bloomers are early age-ers, so the theory goes, and kids who look younger than their age or are uninterested in appearance-competition when they're younger, are going to remain looking younger and are probably better at keeping physically fit rather than keeping up with trends. Generally speaking. I've made similar anecdotal-level observations as well. The real trick is to keep the fat off for as long as you can.

What latitude were you at for the auroras? Some of us here at 30 North got to see some, believe it or not. I missed them because between me and them were, in no particular order, cloud cover, a ceiling and roof, and stripper tits.

Suggestions (after the site is up and running more functionally soon?) A. Clubs in an area somehow appear in most-recently-reviewed chronological order, or indicate which club have "new" reviews B. Reviews appear with a foregrounded digit indicating the total number of reviews the reviewer has published. So, f.e., "Bumbie's Club, new review May 10 2024 by JohnQMonger (reviewer has published 2 prior reviews)". I'm sure all of that information is available in the master database, it's just a question of whether the interface and display foreground that info in one way or another. Over all I don't want to complain, I think Founder and all staff (is there any staff at all?) do a great job, this is the internet's premier source and only good location for all sorts of strip-club related information. I'm surprised it hasn't gone more commercial or gotten "owned", taken over, and ruined by one of the big corporations by now. Thanks Founder!!

Ah yes, the free market. Prices go up when the demand is high, prices stay up when the demand is low, it's classic college economics. Except for the second part.

I miss the tag lines. :( ... "We have SanDiegoGuy" ROFL

With a whopping sample size of 38 ...

Well, patience to us all. Regarding the "threading" question, yes, now I understand what you're referring to. (For example, Reddit will thread and sub-thread the replies hierarchically as you are describing.) Personally I don't recall that TUSCL's discussions ever had that feature, though it's possible way back. I like the current one-size-fits-all linear discussion, maybe because it can help discourage trolling (viz. argumentative replies "feel" like they're addressing the whole thread and all its participants, rather than just one intended victim, unless the troll cut-and-pastes a quote, thus requiring greater care, one thing highly discouraging to trolls; we have a lot of childish trolls here in the first place, so I'm all for mitigating). In fact, I recall (over my time here since, literally, the 1990s) a lot of modifications. I think there have been at least four overall major design changes, during many of which there have been hiatuses such as we are currently experiencing. I do also think I remember a few, but only a few, now lost actions or data which the site has simply abandoned. But mostly the site gains rather than loses functions, so I think the most recent full version had the most functions of any version, as the general trend has always been upwards in overall usefulness. One minor thing I miss is "tag lines" which used to appear across the masthead. Some were hilarious. On the top of the page in an otherwise blank space, unrelated to anything else, there would randomly appear and change at each refresh an enjoyable little quote, like "we won't tell your wife" or "who took all my money" or "saving marriages since 1999" or "we support single moms." :)

I had just understood, making an assumption, that this "new" version of the site is not in its intended form yet. A few aspects are not functional -- clickable maps, the entire feed link, the date stamp on personal messages -- so it makes sense to me that either something is wrong or something isn't finished. Either way I think waiting makes the most sense. Really, it takes a bit of sad chutzpah to complain about it since Founder does so much to make this thing accessible to all of us. To answer a recent question, forum posts used to be accessible either in threaded form (going to "discussions" and sorting by date of first comment), or in hierarchical form (going to "forums"), or in (what you call) chronological form (going to "discussions" and sorting by date of most recent comment). I suspect most of that is coming back soon enough. Patience grasshopper ...

Catholics need to learn a lesson from the Scouts and rebrand as "Churching America."

Serious response: I value statism. I prefer the Scandinavian model, thank you. I would move toward greater state control over a lot of things, especially protecting the environment and the rank-and-file worker against excesses perpetrated in the name of profit by the over-wealthy. I know that it is a dangerous bargain to try to make, a risky balance to try to create, between giving the state the power to protect as opposed to giving the state too much power. But to pick Trump, or MAGA, or even most Republican agendas, is also a form of statism. It is the state of the wealthy, privileged few, born to inherit more than they need, which enables their misrepresentative hoarding, by which the amount they contribute to value in the economy is much less than the wealth they take from their participation in the economy. Right-wingers often value statism -- the state controlling a woman's body, or the state incarcerating those who cannot pay bail fees on the strength of mere unproven accusations, or the state marching across lands occupied by brown-skinned people and bombing them to smithereens, or the right-wingers' freedom to take huge fees for themselves to be middle-men for government contracts, or accepting without complaint the state's socialism-for-the-rich systems which pretend to be free-market competition but mandate non-level playing fields, or expecting tax dollars to build roads and bridges and to fund fire stations and to police contractual obligations and then pretending they didn't need society at large to make their millions because they "did it all themselves." It's just blinded, blinkered statism, but it's as statist as most tax-and-spend lib-tards. I value one form of statism, they value another. Most of them would curl up into a sniveling ball of whining fear and pee their pants if they really had to compete on a level field or really had to defend themselves without the coddling of the nanny-police state they love to hate. Imagine Elon Musk striding across the Wyoming plains to bring a six-gun to bear in order to ensure that the Earp boys or the James Younger gang didn't welch on a car-construction or computer-programming contract.

I'm sorry I had to skip participating in this thread for a while due to internet privacy and family etc. (Maple Leafs notwithstanding) but then again, I'm not sorry. I guess it blew up in my absence and then repaired itself. For me, simple concept is, I think Jews are equal to all other humans and that really doesn't even need to be said; but I think "Zionism" in certain definitions is not a very good thing. I do believe in Israel's right to defend itself, now that Israel exists in the form as established in 1948 and we're definitely not going to simply eradicate it due to some theory, and I also believe in the Jewish people's right to self-determination. But there are some internet resources that go further, and say, I think wrongly, that any belief that is counter to Zionism is inherently antisemitic. I disagree, since I believe that one can be both (a) equal-minded about Jews (Jews aren't stupid, or greedy, or somehow a lower form of life, or any other dumb racial opinion) and about the Jewish people's right to self-determination, but one can also simultaneously be (b) unhappy about the usurpation of non-Jewish people's homes in 1948, which was a necessary component of the current Zionist establishment of current form of Israel the nation-state. I think many forms of Zionism go way too far into zealotry and racial exclusion. Thinking that Jews aren't allowed to racially exclude other tribes, is thinking (IMO) that Jews ought to live by the same rules we expect everyone else to live by. (And I do think most Jews try to do exactly that, and succeed most of the time, doing their best like the rest of us, slipping up like the rest of us, so I'm not saying they're to be criticized on that score.) So honestly, I was surprised when the first few respondents included the "duration" argument -- people who listed how long the Jews have been in that location, and the fact that it's their ancestral home. Yes, I wanted to say, but so what? By logical extension of that argument, I personally own the African nation of Mali, because it's my ancestral home (after all, Y-chromosomal Adam was from there, and I'm descended from him), and never mind the people whom I, the conquering White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, am going to evict on my way to my ownership. Or, by a less tenuous logical extension, the Volga Bulgars who are currently residing mostly in Bulgaria would, as a group, have a right to evict everyone from Kazakhstan all the way to Mongolia, to make more space for their horses, because the steppes are the Volga Bulgars' ancestral homeland. The Bulgars left that land much more recently than various portions of the Jews left the Levant area. But this is idiotic, and I don't believe either of those extensions does much justice to the Jewish duration argument. Yet the Middle East has had various conquerors and changes in leadership for thousands of years, Ottomans or Seljuks or Hittites or Babylonians or Persians or the damned British mandates or what-not else. Why do we pick one particular year, and one particular tribe, to privilege? I disagree with that privilege, since it so radically disenfranchised people who were right there well settled and had long duration leading up to the year 1948, but I also can't really come up with a better way to solve the problem, personally. And it's not like full eviction occurred in 1948. There wasn't wholesale mass-deportation everywhere, though it did happen in places. Today, the current nation of Israel is deliberately multi-cultural; the non-Jewish (mostly Arab-descent) people who live there are among the most successful and safe individuals in all the Middle East; and the population of Israel is mostly not European Jews traveling toward their ancestral home due to the Nazi holocaust, but rather, Israel's Jews are mostly Middle Eastern people in the first place. Further, it can be rightly said that the inhabitants of Gaza WANTED Hamas to run the place, they voted for them several times over, and it can also rightly be said that Israel did what it could to accommodate the "Palestinian people" (if such a tribe exists, which is questionable) on several previous occasions. (And BTW there's no such thing as a human "race." We really should be using the word "ethnic group" or similar, I guess ...) It's very mixed. I don't have an opinion that won't offend someone. So, for me, when I was playing a bit of an obvious devil's advocate up there in my first post, I think it was most important to me to see what other people's responses were. I don't know why I posted it, I didn't have my motivations well worked out, I just wanted to shake the hornet's nest and see which Maple Leafs shook out. The reliance on the 5000-years-duration argument to me is the least convincing. I think I can be both anti-Zionist and not antisemitic, but you have to fiddle with the definition of Zionism to make it logically coherent. I think many of the college protesters don't know that they've signed up for events sponsored by major political professionals whose agenda is to eradicate Israel. And I think eradicating Israel on the basis of tribal or racial animosity is definitely antisemitic, and also (in an enlightened-self-interest sort of way) a poor plan for the future. And I think Netanyahu's prosecution of this war is unreasonable, very much inappropriate, though this doesn't mean the whole state of Israel is at fault any more than the whole of the USA was at fault for the Vietnam debacle. I think the attacks on Gaza have gotten perhaps to the point of ICC's definition of War Crimes (attacking civilian targets, seems to me to be the easiest element to prove), but then again, how else ya gonna prosecute this war against what is essentially a civilian professional dug-in infrastructure? I mean, he couldn't send troops to go house-to-house with a questionnaire, right? "Do you like Hamas, or dislike Hamas? Right, check, dislike, nobody here, move on to the next house." Kind of "Cake or Death" Eddie Izzard ... So Go Leafs Go next year I guess.

Oh I bitch about the Islamic states, and I certainly don't support the terrorist groups (as I made clear, but you missed it) but why don't you elaborate on this idea instead: "Not one person killed in Gaza is innocent." OK, convince me. Children? Doctors? Hamas hostages?

At Visions in NOLa the shot-girls were available for lappers, when there were shot-girls. I believe this used to be the case for all the clubs in the French Quarter, too.

@Dolfan, of your four examples, I personally am attracted only to the first two. The first (Rachel Rivers) does have a more physically fit body than the second one; but I think (generally speaking) her type of tiny-but-fitness actually creates a softness or pliancy that I really crave. It's the Janice-Griffith-softness I was trying to describe in my first post. I wouldn't find either of the latter two appealing at all, and I do perhaps disagree with your assessment of which of those two would feel firmer or softer, I'm not sure you got it right. But generally I concur, I would also "take a thicker girl who still feels firm over a thin girl who feels pillowy soft" as long as the pillowy-ness has gone far enough to be unappealing to me. I once dated a firm girl who was bigger than I liked -- we stayed together a while, I just put up with the fact that her larger tits and ass were solid, good for bouncing, and the relationship progressed for a reasonable duration. To the contrary, I also once dated a very pillowy small girl but I broke up with her early, much because I didn't enjoy the delicacy and bruise-prone nature of her nakedness (and attitude that went with it; everything was "no you have to be more careful" from dinner to car driving to sex to petting dogs to ... what a whiner!). So anecdotally on that pair of occasions I voted in favor of firmness independent of size. @grimes I also was surprised by the assertion that Janice Griffith had fake boobs, so I looked it up and found differing results on differing websites. I really like her when she has natural boobs. :) @several I don't think this has anything at all to do with lotion, IMO. The type of soft I'm assessing is a bodily pliancy, a question regarding how far down the skin-plus-adipose will go under gentle pushing before hitting a firmer under-stratum (as opposed to having no under-stratum, but being instead the first firmer stratum as the only stratum). I'm not assessing the surface-level smoothness. I think lotion helps with surface smoothness only. (Or maybe with lubrication. But it's not the ideal first choice for that.) Skibum and Blah are onto my concept, I think.

For a long time in my mongering life I really valued providers who did DFK, or at least "up close and personal" K of the girlfriend-experience variety. I've moved on from that, I don't know why, the desire for it just faded over the decades. But this SIM thing? I never craved anything like it. I guess I must be missing out.

@Dolfan and @RonJax2 great advice guys, I'm sure anyone looking at this thread would find all those tidbits helpful. Except not that hotel, yeek. Personally I'm not exactly into the hotels that are TOTALLY CHEAP any more. There was a time in my life when I needed nothing more than a lockable cubicle which surrounded a flat clothed surface, whereupon to crash from the wee hours to mid-day, so any no-Tel sufficed, but now I'm willing to put more money into it. I need to be able to rely on a few simple concepts -- clean, quiet enough, safe enough, running water enough. I looked at Hotels-dot-com and AirBnB and a few other resources, from which it looks to me like you can get away from the absolutely horriblest of dregs for about $150 per night single occupancy. The Budgetel, athough the cheapest of the lot, has some amazingly bad reviews, stories about ceilings caving in and bullets through windows. There are a bunch of options, you just have to be a bit careful. Staying at a major chain can be helpful if they run out of rooms, they just forward you to the next nearest one. That ups the Uber costs of course ... maybe prefer rental car, but then you can't drink like a fish. I really began to think about this seriously just yesterday. Now I am preparing the sig-O with stories of a college alumni golf tournament. The "Wynmoor Golf" location, just North of Hammondville Rd (aka Coconut Creek Parkway) between Turnpike and Lyons looks as though it could be a likely story. Anybody got any random paraphernalia I can throw at her to make the tale more plausible? I don't even play golf ... I went on one of these types of monger's trips about once every three months for a while in the early 2000s. I think my biggest extravaganzas were trips from my short-term-long-term stay working in Jackson Mississippi, to Houston for a long weekend or two. I recall cheap-seats flying to the airport in the Southern half of Houston town, renting a car, staying at a Day's Inn brand hotel which had exterior doors on that balcony open plan, right in the heart of the Westheimer district. Over the trips, I managed to attend the main two or three famous strip clubs including Treasures and IIRC a Penthouse named place, also two strip clubs that were essentially brothels (was one called Centerfolds or sthg like that?), also exactly and precisely a brothel which masqueraded as a lingerie modeling studio (nerdy gamer-girl was into DFK, no complaints), also another brothel or two masquerading as Asian modeling studios. One highlight was the food truck with tacos al pastor right next to that lingerie place, which I could probably find on a map if you pressed me. And went daytime shopping at that Galleria mall and around-abouts, bought a "healthy back bag" which I still have at a leather specialty store where another one of the customers was a stripper who had jobbed me the night before. She booked it outta there when she saw me. Ah memories.

ROFL @iknowbetter "All I’m thinking is these asshole protestors had better be gone by football season because they’re taking up prime tailgating real estate. Fuck your 1st Amendment. This is the SEC."

Could someone explain to me the assertion regarding the 12th Amendment and the connected idea that DeSantis' and Trump's mutual Florida residency would be a disadvantage? I don't give a hoot whomever Trump picks, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this technicality about elector vote distribution.

Not sure if I'm insanely jealous of the OP, or cringing because I'm appalled at the OP. It sounds like a trip I'd like to do. Personally I'm too old for the no-hotel trick, just sleeping in the airport terminal sounds like it would break me. On the few occasions when I've visited the area I only had time to hit a single club. I have therefore been to Diamond Dolls once or twice, and I chose that destination over the others for the aspect of service more than for any other type of strip-club experience. I can confirm there was indeed service. I see from Uber estimates that the rate for the first trip, from FLL airport to one of the three clubs, is only about $25; the other zips between clubs are almost negligible. A cruddy hotel or AirB&B at / near airport, or up top at the clubs, would make this a do-able trip for me, personally. Anybody have recommendations?

A. I'm generally politically Progressive. B. I'm a citizen of the USA so I call myself an "American." There's no contradiction in these two. I do disagree with much of the protesters' platform(s) (in so far as there actually is one) but I also disagree with mass-scale attacks which cause innocent civilian deaths in Gaza. Personally, I don't merely "look at how the protesters dress ... (etc.)" to determine their political positions and I certainly don't condone mass killings on either side.

@gammanu95 Rick's in New Orleans gee what a surprise another ROB misleading upselling and going through your pockets, I'm impressed you got any contact or service from her at all I bring a couple of condoms, and (you can read all about it in my replies to the LDK article) I often wear one.

rofl @ CJKent_band's comment I'd smash Kidman though I've always thought she looked a bit like a human Woody Woodpecker (cue "wood" and "pecker" obvious jokes here) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e4/Woody_Woodpecker.svg/330px-Woody_Woodpecker.svg.png

I think the "seasons" at strip clubs aren't much about the calendar of yearly changes. Rather, they're following EVENTS. If the Super Bowl is in Tampa, then for a week before the Super Bowl, the clubs near the stadium in Tampa will experience an influx of excellent-quality dancers, at those locations any negotiable prices will go up for a while, and the clients will include more men from out of town. Some rock concerts might bring crowds but mostly I think rock concerts aren't part of the strip club migratory habit. Sturgis and Daytona bike weeks might increase clubbing (are there any clubs in Sturgis?), but I don't know. It seems to me that basketball college Final Four and pro NBA Finals, Super Bowl, Master's (as you mention), maybe Stanley Cup, maybe World Series? Depends on the city, too. If the game is in a small city there might not be migration. If the game is in a sin-city (New Orleans, Las Vegas, Miami) there might be a lot of migration.

gammanu I have read your reply and found all of your points preposterous. Just one corrective -- don't use the word "liberal" about me, unless you know what it means, or know whether it does or doesn't apply to me. And you so far demonstrate that you don't.

So when is this thread going to morph into planning the next TUSCL meetup?

kinda butterface no?

It's all about the thighs and breasts ... har ... couldn't resist ...

I was with him until that part about "leaders". The citations from Eisenhower are just that, citations from Eisenhower; the contents of them don't dispel any of the previous argument, but boy they certainly are quotes which ... umm ... say the words that he said. I do agree we're in a pickle and the extreme left is little better than the extreme right but participating in one or the other extreme doesn't mean you're helping the situation.

Hey WiseToo you've got an excellent point there. This club does have a good house mother (AFAIK; she used to be a dancer, I'm old enough to remember, and I do see her patrolling once in a while to straighten things out) nor were they particularly desperate for numbers on that weekend night. Really my OP was more intended to whine and complain than to come to any real to some "there's this one girl" problem, I'm a much more experienced monger than to be someone who would need need need the special perfect girl to etc.etc. But it's a great valid point you raise.

seriously I was trying to say "seven sisters and/or eight ivies" or similar, but would have had to google for how many ivies there are since i had no idea, although i did know there was an expression for "seven sister", but by then i got sick of it and just stuck with whatever i had already typed, and the two ivies I was referring to were william and mary and u of virginia har har get it?

sow not sew that bothers me so-so

@docsavage ditto for me, though I haven't yet passed 60 I'm well on my way. But, I'm surprised at the idea that "some customers do a have a fantasy their club regular might become their girlfriend". Wait really? Who!!?? Seriously now ...

@blahblahblah when I applied there were only two Ivies, I'm that old

It's funny, I had expected anti-Moslem-ism to trump (har har) anti-Jewish-ism after 9-11 but recent episodes suggest that anti-Jewish-ism is still stronger, launched from its usual stronghold on the idiot fringes of the Right, but now successfully using idiot fringes of the Left's political correctness woke-ism to bolster its nefarious appeal. Jews -- bottom of the totem pole for four thousand years and still going strong! (BTW if you need to ask, I vote "progressive" when I can find it in the USA, and otherwise find some sensible planks to the platforms of both the rational Democrats and the rational Republicans, and believe the MAGA and Trump Republicans are not nearly rational at all, they're simply stupid and don't even know that the President can't openly break laws, certainly not as official stated Border policy, though I am not a huge fan of Biden, he is too corporate and old-system for me).

First, speaking of groups, have you ever met up with any guy from TUSCL as a strip-clubbing partner? I think that might be a recipe for success ... Otherwise, I absolutely would prefer going alone. I am a monger, not a party-er. I am at the club for the (manufactured) intimacy feeling with the girls, whether during floor-banter or cubicle private lap dancers or further services. I do enjoy my brief interactions with other male customers (strangers), and with bar staff. Further, I sometimes really value laughing about one or another episode, or sharing information about one or another dancer's skills, with a stranger male customer, but I'm uncomfortable knowing more about him. I don't even want to know what car her drove away in. I want him, like all the strippers, to disappear from my life as soon as the night is over, and I reciprocate that disappearance from him. Once in a while in a strip club I have run into a guy I knew from outside the club. Danger, civilian contact! Generally he, also, would be there solo, probably also seeking what I was seeking. We would not interact much, except to acknowledge that we'd seen each other. For the one married civilian friend whom I accidentally encountered, I deliberately approached and addressed him in order to pro-actively tell him that his secret would remain safe with me if it needed to. He was flustered, but then later said, "Thanks" in passing. I've been good to my word. I think I would be uncomfortable if I, as a solo, met a bunch of men, as a group, whom I knew. This was a real danger for me when I returned to law school in my mid-forties. Plenty of young boys were in this party town (New Orleans) sewing the last of their wild oats before a humdrum life of predictability. They were often out at the touristy traps, which I don't patronize, but once in a while they might discover my neighborhood club. They always did so in groups. I always went solo. I feared encountering them. They would be signalling, through group membership, the communication message of, "We're not here to fuck strippers; rather, we're here to have a hooplah noisy time that involves cigars, cheering, high-fives, and male bonding"; whereas I would be signalling, through solo status, the communication message of, "I'm here to fuck strippers, and I don't do this with male friends." The former statement about them may or may not be true, but it is transmitted, and for them there's safety and security in being able to attend the club without much of the social negative sanction otherwise attached to attendance. The latter statement about me is generally true, so it wouldn't be misleading, but I don't want to madly signal it to people from my civilian life. It's the problem of social sanction -- being known in the civilian world as a club attendee has some (perhaps unwarranted) negative consequences in civilian life It's similar in civilian pickup. If I see a solo girl at a bar I think, "she'll bang the first tall guy who approaches her." In civilian pickup situations I personally only approach groups of women, because I'm not tall. (There's more to it than this, of course. Height is not the only factor. I'm just using it as an example.) Further, I'm not particularly good at pulling girls from bars, so that's not exactly my best scene, I do better at bookstores (duh?), but when I did pull, from whatever other venues, it was likely because I could isolate the girl away from her girlfriends. Groups are defusers, deniers, preventatives. A group is a cockblock. Same in strip clubs -- male groups mean the female will not get to an isolated male. Therefore the following ... @PAWG_Patrol "with a group of guys, dancers are more likely to approach" I often find it the other way around, that groups of men will turn off a dancer who wants to sell legitimate dances. Sitting with three men for five songs nets her a free drink and maybe $5 in tips and afterwards she doesn't know whether any one of those guys will be a good investment of her time later. Sitting with one man for one song and then giving him four songs' worth of lap dances nets her a free drink and definitely $120 plus maybe a tip and afterwards she probably has greater clarity on whether or not that guy is good for further expenditures of whichever sort she is willing to sell. It's certainly the case that many dancers will approach the male group before the male solo, for reasons you mention (also for bashfulness, social convention, etc.) but it's also possible that you AND THE DANCER are shortening your own chances of engaging in more of what you prefer, by sticking to a group.

Yeah rickdugan I can shoulder the burden of ME being unappealing enough that I'm not allowed to be her customer. I just wanted to ask about how she makes any money, and why she bothers to come to the club at all if 110% of the remaining men in the building are in the same category, and she's pissed off about it until she goes home.

@nicespice, I hear your question. I also wonder at the larger demographic shift that is feeding the campus-radical phenomenon. Your suggestion about dwindling cushy-spots after graduation (rise in meritocracy-based appointments, desire to stop using ONLY the seven Ivies as the source feed, etc.) is certainly part of it. Mate27 mentions Victim Culture, which is definitely part of this phenomenon, but I can't really tell if it's the cause or the effect. There will always be clueless agitators among the young, and sometimes they do good things (Voting Rights Act) and sometimes they do stupid things (German National Socialism), but I think our present wave is indeed of a different flavor. F.e. we have people here wrongly thinking Biden is senile, or that Trump is mentally stable, when licensed physicians can certify otherwise on both counts; as long as such extreme willingness to abandon reality is prevalent, and such extreme willingness to "invent new facts," then the flat-earthers will have their way on EITHER side of the aisle. To me, "the center cannot hold" is really the explanation (cf. Yeats "Second Coming"), and I strive to admit my own side's faults even as I indicate the faults of the other. In 1775, previously 1774, 1773, 1772, and on back through a host of grievances, the best-educated and most-propertied leaders had gotten together to try to address abuses of power. Now everyone thinks he's as competent as any one of the Founding Fathers and thinks his spur-of-the-moment protest is equivalent to a decade of Colonials' legally supported petitions and documents appealing to the King.

I used to support the concept of "elite education" and, although I didn't go to an Ivy League school, I did get in to one and turned them down for a Small Liberal Arts College instead. I had an excellent experience, graduated with an excellent education and a fairly useful BA in the mid-1980s. Since then (really, it started before then) I've seen such a politicized shift in the priorities of higher education I just can't figure it out any more. David Lodge wrote a novel largely about "tenured radicals" in the late 80s, early 90s -- professors of Marxism who only ever wore the latest fashions and the most expensive lambskin gloves, etc.. I tried to get a Ph.D. in literature but couldn't stomach the bullshit about "marginalized communities" and "alternative readings". I still believe that a good education is the foundation of a democracy, but the damn elite tenured radicals aren't providing that education. The last straw for me was when the three college Presidents really dropped the ball before the Congressional committee recently. Not only were they doltish and inept, but also they were UNPREPARED. You could figure they'd be politically correct and therefore the target of right wing representatives' cross-examination, it was obvious this would be forthcoming, but they didn't PLAN AHEAD FOR IT. Then the one from Harvard turned out to have plagiarized her damn doctoral dissertation. I don't feel that justice will have been served until she not only loses her academic posts, but also GIVES BACK all that she supposedly earned in the interim on the strength of that false document. I never got the Ph.D., because I did NOT write bullshit, and I don't feel that it's enough that she and her sort get to keep their nice houses and nice cars when I'm working hourly, harder than they ever had to, and still don't own a home (the down-payments probably went to Minxie and Scarlet, actually). I still vote Democrat, mostly because I can't stomach the Orange Monster and know he's just P.T. Barnum (or Larry "Lonesome" Rhodes) in a newer suit, but a few more of these escapades and it'll turn me into a damn Maga moron. I value REAL progressive politics, and don't agree with the property-or-else assumptions behind current Republican policies, but the Democrats aren't true progressives and the campus protesters certainly aren't, they're just fascists trying to kill all the heteros instead of trying to kill all the homos like they did in the 30s and 40s. If we had real labor-representation, and "progress" rather than corporate shilling on both sides of the aisle, I think America's traditionalists (who currently find most of the more balanced Republicans appealing) would realize that a lot of progressive politics (without this LGBTQ politically correct bullshit) is probably in their best interests. I'm for the Scandinavian model thank you, not just because their women are hotter. Meanwhile, I just gotta be stunned at LGBTQ for Palestine.

I'm not sure I can make the connection which nicespice makes, between not being in a fantasy, and not working it. I saw the post in both threads, but I really don't understand the link. Sorry, maybe I'm just dumb. I let myself spend a lot of time in strip clubs, after all, my IQ can't be all THAT high.

I find it is usually possible to make my point, that I want to see her. There are several ways to do that, but ultimately, I'm pretty sure that she has heard me. I can go to stage-side while she's doing her set and tip enough that she attends to me briefly, and then I say what I'm going to say about how I want to interact with her. I might say, "we should do dances," I might say, "you're the hottest girl here, I need to get to know you," etc.. Anyway, point here is, I have made my point to her, explicitly enough that I know she has not missed my point. THEN there's the response that she engages in. If she departs never to darken my door again, then, thanks to the fact that I know I have made my point clearly, I also know that she has chosen to respond to my point in that manner. It's very helpful, therefore, to not be vague when you make your point. In fact, glad to read stripper_friend's statement, that "stop by" is probably too vague a request. I am guilty of this one. Thanks to his advice I think I'm going to start saying "we should have drinks together and see if we want to do dances" or even "can we get dances later" or similar (depending on which I intend), instead of merely asking her to "stop by later." Stripper_friend is right, the "stop by" aphorism is probably read by girls as a mere vague politeness, like "have a great trip!" or "doing fine. You?." I'm seeking clarity that goes beyond catch-phrase friendliness.

Another thought. Squarecastle points out that many Mexican providers simply don't have better options of quasi-sex-work on the internet. ("Buying an Apple Computer and creating an OF’s account is just not an option. ") This seems to me to be an excellent cross-border business opportunity. What would it take, for two or three sensible US investors, to set up internet-cafe-style businesses in a few Mexican cities? The setting would be multiple small office type rooms with full-privacy, each with a laptop-type good internet connection. You let the girls come in at regular hours to do their OnlyFans shows, they rent the computer access from you. Don't even try to control their internet presence or try to supervise the filming; just let them run it the way any average suburban US girl would do it, except they don't ultimately own the computer or pay for internet connection. Seem plausible? One of you mongers with good Spanish and south-of-the-border experience should get on that!

Lots of explanations, many are tending toward the whole truth, a combination will probably be the best solution. Personally I disagree with the "pure economics" description (though it does apply as far as this post goes). There could be plenty of other market-economics arrangements in which sex would be LESS valuable than a lot of other services that are presently offered at less expensive rates than sex. For example, rational-economically, you could be paying for her time and effort, not for which "base" you land on, nor for whether her panties come off; consequently a two song from-behind full-service experience, in which the girl simply bends over and removes her panties and the guy goes at it, might (in some settings) be rationally valued economically as less than a longer and more effort-ful six-song medium-contact lapper which requires her to change positions and move around, but allows her to keep her panties on. This alternate valuation (extended effort-ful lappers costing more than quick-and-easy full-service) is already kind-of the norm at Pompano Beach FS clubs, IME, though not necessarily 100% of the time. I'm not saying that this other pricing is required, or could be imposed immediately. Rather, I'm just making the point, that the present choices made in economic valuation here, are still at least partially subjective, leaving room for leeway. Generally, its my hunch that we mongers should, over the aggregate, figure out how to work this subjectivity further in our favor. There are things we want, that are known to be wanted, and so will be up-priced by most intelligent providers; but there are also things that are really of very little consequence to the providers, and require little effort, and therefore we might generally convince them to down-price those things by framing it as a win-win situation. We males aren't very good at valuing ourselves, or the attention (and money) we dole out, as demonstrated in the X-Twitter video from Joey Mannnarino linked by PhredJohnson. A few simps will spoil the market for everyone else. This has collectively happened over the course of our (we participants at TUSCL) lifetimes, as providers used to hold much lower bargaining power than they presently hold. A major portion of the solution is, to de-simp most men, and to demand something I call "true feminism" from most women -- if the women are going to have the opportunity to hold legitimate places of equal power in the workplace, then they're going to have to learn to "fuck like a man," more emotionally detached and at a much lower price-point. This would be a change to overall social mores, so it takes a lot more engineering than just talking about it, though I do see hints of it coming along in the Millennial and post attitudes sometimes. Complaining about simps is one part of the solution; and realizing our bargaining power (girls who need to pay the rent, f.e., won't take "no" for an answer); and not valuing the specific act of insertion-of-dick so highly as we presently do merely because it's something presently restricted. If the DeBoers cartel hadn't cornered the diamond market then those particular stones, which are less rare than many others, would not be the highest-priced ones. We're fighting, essentially, against a slow-moving cartel, call it the GPS cartel. No one girl has exclusive rights to pussy distribution, though she instinctively manipulates males on the basis of that assumption whenever she has the opportunity (social conditioning? biological imperative? I think it's mostly the former). Just some discussion of the "rational economic indicators" here. TLDR -- strippers aren't rational, don't let them force you to be just because that's what every simp currently does.

not sure what gammanu95 means by "belly crack" but I'll gladly think Emily Ratakowski anyway

I don't generally notice whether she does or does not have sightly or unsightly thigh gap. I do prefer smaller women and spinners often appeal to me, but they can be gapless or gapped either way. I don't like larger or even above-average in weight, so that means I don't like extremely ungapped women, but moderately gapped or ungapped is immaterial to me. :)

Judging solely physically, smash. Add the context, pass.

Late to the party, but I'll add, the strip-clubs often have excellent full-service options available. The TUSCL reviews mostly make these facts clear. Personally I love the experience of attending a strip club, assessing the variety of women, sidling up to several and getting to "know" them and their interpersonal style, and then slowly selecting the one that I'm going to have in the back room. Though I've patronized almost all the styles of mongering venues -- plain brothels, FKKs and hostess clubs, window girls, call-girl escorts, street-walkers, OTC with dancers, etc. -- I find the most enjoyable to be, as described, a visit to a guaranteed-full-service strip club. Also it's often one of the better in terms of value-for-money, depending on the girl. Canada's are decidedly better than most in the US, partly because of the laxer law-enforcement and therefore no premium price for illegal activity; but also partly because the providers are, themselves, more likely to be better educated, friendlier, and of a generally higher degree of "class" and sense. Dancers in the USA (and I say this as a USA citizen, BTW, if that matters to you) tend to be more likely low-class in upbringing and lacking in education; dancers in Canada, including those who are sex-service providers, tend to be (aside from immigrants; who are hot, especially the Eastern European ones) better positioned in the world, IME.

Hey mickey seems like you follow the discussion participants a bit better than I. There used to be someone who really screwed up the discussions all the time, can't remember his handle, but had developed so bad a rep here that one of the random taglines at the top of the homepage (remember when the site design had random taglines?) was "we have __handle__" and that was all. Was it "Tijuana Guy" or something like that? You may remember better than I do.

@skibum609 excellent point, why are we assuming the REST of employment places are so all-fired respectful and civil? @ the general discussion It seems a consensus is that you're picking the wrong clubs. I don't get hassled, nor do I get the FEELING of being hassled, at my regular club, but I can guess that the high-volume high-tourist places in my city (New Orleans) would have that kind of panopticon scrutiny going on (if I went to them; which I don't). Some places are recently succeeding quite well, I think, though there was a lull in strip club performance during and immediately after the 2020 pandemic period. I hope that what we might be experiencing is a rearrangement in the virtual-versus-physical world's business models, as the economy in while starts to determine that some things just can't be relegated to cyber-experiences. Strip clubbing absolutely could be one of the brick-and-mortar-only business sectors, even though it SEEMS to be threatened by online opportunities (the theory that girls can make more on OnlyFans, f.e.). I think that good strip clubs sell the sense of membership, belonging, and interpersonal opportunity, that PL customers do not experience in regular life. A strip club owner or manager who figures this fact out, and then manages to implement it in all the ways he runs the place, especially in the ways the girls interact with the customers, will probably have a highly regarded club, and I suspect it would not be expensive to implement these sorts of changes, therefore it likely would be very profitable to implement them. Just a theory. I'm a good customer because I spend. What do I know about running things?

Dude, you just contradicted yourself. Your last sentence should say, "In places other than strip clubs, attractive females (etc.)". But, IN STRIP CLUBS, attractive females DO "approach you" and DO "ask to sit down" etc.. I concede that it's DIFFERENT from the civilian non-ecdysiastical world, yes. But it's not FANTASY. It's frickin' REALITY. I think this distinction is important, we're mis-using words here. What we mean, when we say "It's a fantasy," is absolutely NOT, "she won't grind her ass on your dick" or "you won't see her tits, you'll have to fantasize about them." Rather, maybe what we mean when we say "It's a fantasy" (I think) is, instead, "it's not approved. You shouldn't." And I object to that. Or maybe what we mean when we say "It's a fantasy" is, "she doesn't really like you but she'll act like she likes you." I don't mind that. I just don't want to wander around lying to myself with, "it's a fantasy." I want to try to think in terms of the truth -- it's not a fantasy, unless my expectation is that I do the approvable thing, get a civilian relationship with an attractive woman who genuinely likes my company and wants to fuck me. That's not my expectation or my desire. Meh you probably got my point but I felt like elaborating anyway. :) I have an erotic hypnosis MP3, it's an induction and a set of triggers to give me a mental orgasm. It sort of works, not really, never really ejaculated, so I consider it a guided fantasy. On the other hand, I went to Visions in New Orleans East yesterday. I got a type of service that gave me a physical orgasm. It worked, I consider it reality.

Personally, I don't like humans. So I find it a bit of a stretch to figure out why strippers would like customers. But if you mollify your perspective a bit, and simply think in terms of other fields of sales, I think it pans out quite similarly. Car salesmen don't "like" or "dislike" most of their customers, because they don't KNOW those people in any context except the car sales floor. Similar with dancers. They like, or dislike, the small slice of each customer's life that they've seen. If he's good at being a good customer -- polite, proper level of expectations, clean and happy and hygienic, pleasant to be around, pays well, gives more and expects less (within reason, but not to the extent that she thinks she can exploit him) -- then she thinks he's an enjoyable experience AS A CUSTOMER. And that's all she'll ever know of him; she'll only ever know him AS A CUSTOMER. The problem is what strippers take home with them. Read any of a number of stripper-discussion web-boards and you'll see, many of them have become male-haters. This is unreasonable of them. If all their customers are bad at being customers, then maybe they need to consider what the common denominator in all those experiences is. Is it her bad actions bringing out the men's bad behavior? Her attitude? Is it the club? The type of men that attend? You don't hear a lot about car salesmen deciding to hate ALL HUMANS WHO TRY TO BUY CARS. Dancers who take home a genuine hatred of ALL MEN are using a limited sample and really need to figure out why they're engaging in all-or-nothing and group-is-evil type logical fallacies. It's emotionally damaged, to think ALL HUMAN MALES must be evil, but stripping pushes more strippers that direction than, perhaps, reasonable.

Social norms and conventions. In North America, you're "dirty" if you open your pussy, you're not if you simply grind on his lap, etc.. We're hypocrites, "omigod I would never do THAT" is applied inconsistently. Similarly, I have heard that the traditional Thai upbringing and experience generally has different assumptions, that include the fact that sex is really just a bodily function and therefore doesn't have as much negative associated with it, whereas dining together is really a big deal that implies a type of romantic connection. And for a long while in Japan there were really no rules about pornography, none of it was illegal, as long as you didn't show any pubic hair, so I heard.

Yeah holy-shit 5footguy you may have hit on something there, with your option 2. Didn't occur to me. Unleash an Alpha at her. I may try that on another occasion, within reason, if occasion arises. Aggression no, but direction and directed-ness and decisiveness yes. Will report back.

One rule from this thread which I disagree with, is OldWhiteGuy's rule 8, don’t get drunk. I actually LIKE making myself into a bit of an easy target, at least at clubs with which I am familiar. I basically view the steps toward inebriation (the first few drinks) as an act of submitting myself to the feminine goddess and allowing her to own and control me, at least until I am too drunk to perform for her. In the absence of at least a little intake of alcohol, I'd never spend a single nickel on a stripper, probably. This may be simply because I have always associated drinking alcohol with paying strippers, so the two have become some kind of associated stimuli that feed off of one another in my habits. But, having a private lapper while stone cold sober? Seems like a buzzkill to me, to coin a term. YMMV of course, everyone should drink what he should drink not what the rest of us should. Just a thought. Another point I would like to make, is that dancers often aren't as hot as you think they are. Your experience with them is only in dim lighting, while they are scantily clad, wearing extreme levels of makeup and hair treatment. They CAN be super hot, but not necessarily, and even for civilian hotness outside the club, they have to undergo the transformation that every woman does to one degree or another, of plucking and preening and making up and clothing. (There's an important corollary to this -- many more of the civilian girls that you meet in regular life, are probably "hot enough" to be a successful stripper, than you might think. Especially in the age-range from 20 to 35 or even 40, as long as she's not gaining weight, then the thing that makes her "hot enough" to be a stripper is her nakedness and a lot of stage makeup and some extremely high heels. So, don't turn your nose up at all the medium-hot girls you meet in normal life, just judge them on their waistlines and then bone all the skinny ones that you can, they're as hot as most strippers!) And another point. I have administered the "dancer true love test" on two occasions and found out that it's not quite as cut-and-dried as that. The test, according to OP (but paraphrasing and expanding), is to stop paying her, to see how much she really might care about you. Well, once, a dancer kept phoning and texting me because she needed my help, advice, and concern. This is not "true love" of course, and did not lead to genuine romantic dating, nor did I expect or desire it to do so. But we were adequate friends that I do think we valued each other like teammates, and that was nice. Then she moved States, she still texts me when she comes through town, I have not seen her dance lately. She failed the "true love" test, kind of. When she is dancing, she is an excellent asset for learning which girls are the dirty girls in her club, and thereby also for informing those girls that I am a good customer. Another occasion, a dancer went out of her way to offer greater and greater service in the club, for a level of money that was not increasing. This is partly, simply that she was more and more comfortable with me. But it was also, partly, that she liked being with me, and that I was making it pleasurable for her. This is absolutely NOT "stripper true love" but we did, subsequent to her pulling my willie for a full-completion hand-job at no price, start dating. Like, outside in thhe real world. Weird! This went poorly to average, we had nothing in common, and she didn't look half as good to me in her outdoors civilian attire; also we lived more than an hour apart by car, and the midpoint was roughly the club where I met her, so that meant that the best rendezvous was back in the club. But still she was comfortable with me in the club, I would give her sugar-daddy type treatment, and my in-club experiences were always better. Basically I downgraded from friends-with-benefits (not paying for it) down to sugar-daddy (paying for it but having a relationship too) and ultimately to custie (paying for it, not seeing her outside the club) and that was the direction of development I preferred. So, she failed the "true love" test but it wasn't true love anyway.

There is certainly an up-side to mongering, to strip-clubbing, and to pay-for-play. First, the pussy you pay for is usually cheaper than the pussy you get for free. I did not make it up but it's definitely true. Second of all, you are not necessarily paying for the pussy, you're paying for her to go away at the end of the experience. Whether it's a lapper or full service or a recurring ATF-luvv-affair in which you pathetically abase yourself at the feet of her perfection, if it's something having to do with a stripper, then you can be assured, you can immediately and permanently walk away with literally no repercussions. You choose the duration, as long as the funds last, and close it off at your intended moment. For someone of my mindset, this all seems to work out nicely. I know that other people have other instincts and other desires, but for me, in my phase of life, with my predilections and natural curiosities, it's like this -- there is absolutely no reason to think that sex will be good with the average civilian, no matter how beautiful (and I don't generally pull the most beautiful girl in the room, ain't got 'game' like that) and there is every reason to believe that a professional will likely have more professional skills than a non-professional. (Gee when ya put it like that it almost seems reasonable.) So I figure, sex is for sex workers and marriage with civilians is for raising children, and since I don't want to raise children, I don't want to be dating civilians with an eye toward marriage, and therefore I really only want to be dating civilians for the legitimate entertainment value. Is she good at art history? Great, I'll go to the museum and learn something. Then it's her job to beg to suck my dick if she really wants another date, and she probably doesn't want one that bad and if she does then it's a question of how good she is at sucking my dick, but really, I don't have very high expectations since, duh, she's not a professional. Ultimately I think the desire to date, have a partner, be involved in (non-sex-work-related) romantic relationships, is simply a desire to fit in to general society's dictates. All the excellent good-times stories here are stories about how good a professional is, at being professional. Good for her. That's all I have to offer, I just thought I'd go off on an anti-social rant for the sake of ranting, thank you for not throwing peanuts at the monkey.

Yes the ol' golden pussy syndrome, I believe that does apply in situations like this, sometimes. My spidey-sense says, about the few particular women I experienced on this past weekend, is that they are young and new-ish and probably were just feeling their way into being more aggressive about income. Overall in general, for all dancers who fit this category, and therefore for those who would be in the minds of most readers, I'm going to have to stick to the sugar-daddy-whale theory as the most likely for most situations. And to Rickthelion, well, your "rickvice" is true, generally speaking, but presently not particularly germane. We could all use (I suspect this is another TUSCL trope) more lion-ness in any situation. I think I have my strip-club game down nice enough for all my own purposes (or, you may quibble, for ALMOST all of them, given that at least one purpose was not fulfilled and has been recordified in this very thread) and do not generally consider myself any of the "too nerdy, or ugly, or fat, or stinky, or cheap, or poorly dressed, or whatever other" I mentioned. Maybe the "nerdy" applies the most, certainly not the "cheap" since this is a locals-neighborhood club and I'm pretty much a bigger sucker unloading more cash than most, and made sure this particular girl knew it. But still, let's all of use aspire to greater Rickification, if we could, ok? :)

I'm sorry, isn't there some rule about the fact that if there aren't pictures and videos then it didn't happen? Just kidding, fun story. :)

An important point to add, I think, is that the more that SHE knows she is remaining aloof, the more she may charge for less attentive service. Whether we're talking FS or just the level of attitude she gives for a lapper, if the girl is the favorite of everyone in the room, and she knows it, then her own level of assessment of her own value will go up. If you bust your butt to wheedle her away from her favorite table or from her clique of friends standing in the no-boys club in the corner, all you've done is show to her that you are desperate for her and willing to pay for it. She's more likely to not be worth the outlay of effort that it took to get her to focus on you. This isn't always the case, there are girls who don't really realize that they're sequestering themselves into inaccessibility. They may want you to approach, they may feel bashful about it, they get super-rejected all night long and it sucks for them, it all depends on the situation and the girl. And at each particular club, what is expected or precluded differs. I recently posted a mild rant about girls who don't circulate (just a whine, really) and was rightly corrected, that I don't really have the right to demand that she do her job the way that I want her to do her job. But still, it sure would be nice to get her to do it the way that would get me into the back room with her, wouldn't it? :)

Contrary to Jascoi, I find it the case, sometimes, that I don't enjoy full-service in the strip-club back-room as much as I enjoy extended interpersonal lap-dancing that successfully leads me up to the "LDK". I guess it's more about the duration, the pleasant time together, the fact that you can enter and exit the interaction song by song. I don't like how you have to get locked in to a price and a duration before doing full-service -- VIP room for X time, total cost Y, everything directed at the one and only goal of finishing, then once that is accomplished KAZOOM she's off to a new custie. I do appreciate, of course, the fact that, in theory, full-service is higher-service than lap-dance-service, but still, there's something enticing about stringing her along song by song, and somehow it feels more like I'm in control of the interaction. It may not even be cheaper, but it's ... nicer, sometimes. On another topic, and this is probably TMI over-sharing, for lappers, I have a regimen. Pants. I wear Haggar Cool 18s brand pants. These are department-store-level business-casual slacks of a wonderful smooth silky feel, some kind of synthetic breathable cool material, with a plastic zipper, permanent pleats and crease and cuffs, machine-washable. Or, in rare summer weather, jogging-pants of that sheer-ish basketball-shorts material (presently I have a pair of DSG brand, f.e.). I've recently learned that many girls find the boys in sweatpants to be creepy and cheap-seeming so I may not retreat to the jogging pants unless I've reconfirmed their propriety for a given destination. And, I wear a condom. I attend the men's room to put on a lubricated (on the inside) condom (such as Trojan brand Ecstasy) before getting lappers. Although the lube seems like it would be messy, in fact it doesn't really smear off on the inside of my undies at all, and what little of it gets on my fingers is undetectable and washes off with quick soap-and-water. I carry extras in one of my pockets and simply discard and apply a new one at urination. I drink hard-liquor only, never beer at strip clubs, so my intake of liquid volume-to-inebriation ratio is lower than many men's, and this reduces the number of visits to the loo and therefore the number of extra condoms necessary. Two or three is enough for the night, especially if I can remove and re-apply one in a toilet stall without hampering it. TMI? Told ya. Anyway, it's not on there for contraception, duh. It's on there for slippy slidy lubrication. If you've never had a lapper with smooth silky clothing and a sliding condom then you may not understand how people achieve "LDK". But I'd bet that anyone with a condom on is likely to think "LDK" is more rather than less likely from a decent straddle full-contact lap-dance. Finally, I laugh at 5footguy's "their dicks can't remember what a pussy feels like." This may indeed be true, LOL :). But I am paying no child support nor alimony and have literally never been required to attend a decorator's showcase to compare "window treatments."

Damn the good old days of Detroit's "dance improvement" program. I recall hitting there when I lived in Toronto in the late 80s (IIRC) and wondering WTF that was all about. I found out quick. Never been to Flight Club, have heard about it, have wanted to make a trip for a while now, glad to have this clarifying info -- seems there would be more ancillary expenses than would be PLEASANT. I hate the whole upsell (mandatory Valet parking; VIP-room entry fees; etc.), and although I would simply budget into my brain those expenses as rational expectations, irrationally I'm more annoyed by them than if they were rolled in to the cost less explicitly. Or if they weren't charged at all, of course, duh.

No wonder flight prices to Detroit were higher this week, I shoulda figured that out myself, I was hoping to make a monger's trip (would have been my first time to Flight Club, have heard and read so much but never gotten there!) but decided to rearrange the calendar, now it's going to be a long time before I get another chance. Have fun there! Report, write reviews!

First, ROFL @ "murder or disrespecting an unhoused person" I get the tone. :) Seems to make clear just how mangled law-enforcement's priorities have had to become. At least murder is still on the list of things within their field of attention, but ongoing break-in and armed robbery? file on-line please ... (and I usually vote Democrat, don't go all woke on me about how the "unhoused" are people too, if you do then you've missed my point). Second, comparing. Where I'm at, in Louisiana almost everything is illegal, including stripping and gambling (both are against the State constitution; but "gaming" has been carved out as explicitly legal, so we have casinos and -- New! -- sports betting as long as the wager is on a "game of skill" not random chance but we also have a State Lottery that is mandated to be totally random so yeah anybody's guess). The Louisiana anti-stripping law can't be enforced because it and its ilk have been deemed Unconstitutional on aforementioned First Amendment grounds. Further, in New Orleans, contact lap dancing is explicitly illegal, so all the booths in all the clubs have little footstool-sized knee-high tables so that the clubs' owners can claim to have set things up not for LAP dances but rather for "table dances" and therefore any contact was just a transgression on the part of the young lady who is an independent contractor etc. etc.. So, at the right price, the girl who kneels in front of me and whips my dick out may have broken fewer laws than the girl who leaves me all zipped up but sits on my lap and gyrates with her tits out.

I'm with Shailynn on this one, she was always confirmed as bat shit crazy. But combined with Gammanu95's link to her hawtness on Twitter, and then scrolling back through the previous posts on that account, I'm beginning to suspect that she wants the publicity and is hoping to get taken on in some form or other by alt-right media (probably better for her to be on video than just radio) as a "spokesperson" against woke-ness. Is what it looks like to me.

Yeah, sugar daddy / whale arriving at some other time, is probably the best theory. Forgot about that. The internet guess is also a good theory. Those theories do, often, apply, but this time I didn't read these particular girls as all-that-savvy, they seemed less accomplished as dancers than that. I could be wrong. It doesn't matter, just interested in the phenomenon. It's a standard thing to see, girls over in their secret corner gaggle, no boys allowed, and it's a bit funny to me. Heck I'd buy 'em a free drink. (In fact I'm meeting more who say "I don't drink alcohol" than I used to experience, a few damn decades ago when I started attending strip clubs. Is that a new thing? I don't know what to do next when they say that.) Didn't mean to sound like I was desperate for this one girl, or that I didn't have the good strip-club sense to simply move on to others (rereading, I don't think I did sound like that; the OP is, in fact, explicitly otherwise), I just wanted to describe the situation and share the annoyance. Also, aside, funny how a few of the replies here seem, to me, to be genuinely pissed off at me for my poor performance (or maybe just trolling). I had forgotten one of the major TUSCL tropes, respondents spoilin' for a fight and making defense-of-poor-helpless-girl the pretext. She'll be fine without you coming to her aid, gentlemen. I don't need your correctives, get over yourselves.

I agree, BabyDoc, I also don't like having a lot of things. I try to keep "stuff" to a minimum and regularly simply drop a box of odds-and-ends off at a church donation center near me. My best item? Trackball. I hate a standard Mouse attachment to a computer because it interferes with my touch-typing The trackball is always exactly the same distance away from the keyboard, so when I need to move the on-screen mouse-pointer cursor, I can move my hand to the side for the trackball and back to the home keys for typing without having to look down. This improves my humdrum computer-seated day by adding a small dose of efficiency, but that's not the important part. The important part is that it eliminates an otherwise recurring annoyance. Try it you'll like it. I generally use the Kensington Orbit, but others out there are just as good.

Add my best wishes to the list. Sorry to hear about the trouble. Also, props to Techman, excellent funny :).

This is partly a law question. What are the laws? Within that understanding, this question asks "which State" so I'm assuming we're talking about differences among USA's 50 States and potentially a few other jurisdictions. As I understand it, US Federal law and court decisions demand that stripping remain legal -- taking clothing off is a form of expression protected by the First Amendment and some other stuff. So the OP is probably asking more a question of nuance. For example, (a) which States or smaller localities have narrowed that Federal holding so that some portions or forms of stripping are still illegal, while still honoring the Federal mandate to allow it; (b) which places have laws addressing LAP DANCING and other types of personal dances (f.e. the "sweetheart dance" which is a stand-up-and-sway-together experience offered at some few clubs in some few locations) as opposed to merely addressing STRIPPING; (c) which places have laws that tend toward transgressing the Federal mandate, and maybe have laws under category (b) which are such violations; and finally, (d) which of these rules are actually enforced. It's thorny. My categories (b) and (c) potentially overlap, for example. I think the most important question is not "what are the rules," I think the most important question is (d), "what is the enforcement." TLDR -- IMO it's more important to understand what is allowed in practice, rather than what the law says in theory.

Hooters, X's Wing House, T-Backs, Mugs N Jugs, similar establishments where the food is fried-sport-bar-style and the point is to go in and scope out the waitresses. In the Tampa Bay area girls have been known to selectively turn a trick here or there for a more well-groomed or appealing customer. I do, indeed, review mentally as the OP inquires. Is this mere autonomous instinct or is this an example of more well-considered volitional decision-making? Either way, it seems to me to be an intelligent survival mechanism.

I'm often impressed with the people who keep going after accumulating about 5 million dollars, whether legally or illegally. I remember a scene in that "Vice" movie (about Dick Cheney) where he says to his wife that his severance package from some corporation or other was in the millions but was "not enough." For me, I just don't understand wanting more than you can spend. I have accumulated less than most at my age, in terms of cash and liquid assets (the IRAs and 401ks and MMkt accts and so on) but have a few properties that are generating rent. They don't make a lot of money off rent, but they certainly do better than BREAK EVEN on taxes, repairs, management service costs, monthly lawn cutting, insurance, etc., which means they are land that I can ultimately sell for more liquid assets. I got to that point and then ... quit. I didn't "retire," I just abandoned all else. I can't understand the grief-for-no-reward assumptions of people who "have to" continue to be working. I'm hoping to get a small home near a full-service club, bring a zillion boxes of all my accumulated stuff and my parents' stuff there, pay someone to E-Bay most of it or donate the rest to some worthy cause, then just eat cheap veggie food, run on my elliptical, watch free internet movies, read books, and go every weekend to the full-service club. I'm thinking Inkster MI Flight Club or Pompano Beach FL Diamond Dolls. There are potentially others. And if I'm pared down enough, when a club changes I can change cities to a new crap-house in a crap neighborhood. I'm an old boring single male White guy, I'm willing to live next door to a factory. How can that possibly be a bad life? Why would anyone want more? I don't understand ...

Thanks all. Seems pretty straightforward. On related topic. I would just do the dastardly thing of writing and submitting a few quick reviews in order to get VIP status, but I've read too many of those "I'm just writing this to boost my VIP status" reviews, in my two decades with TUSCL. Also I only attend two nearby clubs, concerning which I've said all that really needs to be said (for now, until something changes) so my review contributions would be thin at best. Back when there were more generous credits for submissions and I was reviewing more regularly, I was earning literally years of VIP status. But things are less generous now, and I attend less often, and I have less to say. I looked at my profile where I saw that my history goes back to 2004, but I was surprised that it didn't show some of the earliest reviews I remember, so, there must have been a previous user-name with even earlier submissions. Boy do I feel old.

I concur, the front-page layout seems to lack a login link. I Googled for [ login site:tuscl.net ] and got this [ https://tuscl.net/login ] which worked for me.

Probably a shill review / club ad, IMO. Likelihood of the described events actually happening is near to nil. Likelihood of the described events actually happening AT RICKS is below nil.

@ comment by desertscrub -- Personally I don't think this is necessarily a fake review. It coincides with my experiences at the club. But I can see that there are some red-flag points going on in there. @ comment by papichulo -- You have a good point about the body-language and group-dynamics issue, but I also suspect, based on my experiece here, that there just are a lot of pouty-but-super-hot girls at this particular club. See the TUSCL lexicon https://tuscl.net/glossary.php about "GPS." :)

Good info, thanks for keeping this one on the radar. You'd think lap-dance prices might be coming down, what with the economy as it stands, but oddly no, they're going up more and more. Annoying.

Define "scammy"? New Orleans is too small a city to support a vibrant strip-club culture. Well out of the main tourist section of town (most clubs are within a three-block stretch on or near Bourbon Street), Visions wouldn't be representative of the rest of the clubs anyway (their slogan is "it's where the locals go"). Relative to my experience elsewhere, NOLa's clubs might be characterized as small-time yet expensive (probably because there's not enough competition to drive prices down) and the dancers as low-service (whether you're talking legit "services" like lap-dances and chitty-chat, or you're talking under-the-table availability of more than what would legally be tolerated), generally speaking. Does any of that count as "scammy"? Am still wondering about the prevalence of overweight dancers. Is this the new norm everywhere, or is it a more markedly bad problem in this city, or at this club?

Well, Visions has excellent food and a few new amenities that I haven't seen before, but generally I can't report that it has much potential. I survived the Christmas Party. It was ... well ... OK, I guess. I'll post a full review eventually, when I get a Round Tuit, but the short version of it is that the girls are all really chunky. Like, what happened? They look like linebackers. Some are physically fit, just not gifted with naturally slender proportional physiques. Perhaps they played professional soccer. But is this the new thing? If I had been going to strip clubs regularly, maybe I wouldn't have been half as surprised. Out of approx. 35 girls working, I saw 3 who were under- rather than over-weight, zero who were super-hot, 10 or 15 who were so unappealing as to be in the range of "should not be a stripper." Otherwise the club itself was great, good crowd, other details good. But these women? What have they been eating? Wow ... :( ...

LOL. Stripper: "why do guys want things other than us?" Answer: "because you aren't necessarily the center of our universe." Duh. Other questions? :)

Good review, thanks for the info. Have to agree with MrEddyG (previous comment), New Orleans sucks for mileage, true dat.

Good review, thanks for the info. Glad that the ongoing reviewing activity on TUSCL of NOLa clubs seems to be coming back after the Covid lockdown.

Thanks for the info! Thanks for taking one for the team. :-( 😟

So, help me out here? Evidently, there IS (A) a distancing rule about not getting too close to the dancers when public dancing is going on, but there is NOT (B) a distancing rule about not getting too close to the dancers when private dancing is going on, nor when chatting interpersonally at a table? Contradict much? LOL. Also, I'd appreciate more info about when they require face masks, how private IS private dancing, newly higher or lower levels of contact, etc.. But thanks for the review, it's great that someone is getting out there to see whether there's any form of resurgence! :)

Funny, I don't see many people saying, "Yes, I'll take it, because that will cause me to be less likely to infect other people." Rather, the responses seem to be more along the lines of, "I won't take it, because I am unlikely to get the disease myself for XYZ reasons (less contact, have already contacted, am healthy, know a lot of people who didn't get it, etc.)," or, "I will take it, because I trust the medical community and/or administrative systems in place so I know it won't harm me." I kinda figgered the right way to think about it, is, whether or not you'll infect OTHER PEOPLE. All y'all who are NOT getting the vaccine for the above reasons, have you figured out how many people you have already infected or how many you will infect as an asymptomatic carrier? To me, it's about duty to fellow citizens. I want to be a good member of society. That's, of course, presuming that the vaccine is not dangerous, unreasonably risky, likely to be a failure at preventing transmission, etc.. If you have good medical reasons to believe that it actually won't be effective (at keeping you healthy; or, at keeping others healthy), maybe you know more than I do. But if your reason for not getting the vaccine is simply, that you don't feel that you personally are at a high risk to get the disease (or to suffer from it, if you do get the disease), then you're missing the point, I think. Maybe a lot of you who aren't interested in getting the vaccine actually would rephrase your reasoning to state something like, "I am unlikely to transmit it to anyone else," in which case, I'm sorry to have wrongly misread some of your statements, don't let me put words in your mouths. But if it's just, "I don't really think in terms of other people, I'm willing to take on the risk for myself and if that also increases the risk for other people then fuck them" then, hey, go live in a taliban-controlled place like Afghanistan or Mississippi OK? If you think the vaccine is only about your own responses, then, I'd call you a shirker. In WWII my great-uncles and other relatives knew what to do about shirkers who didn't fulfill their duty to the regiment. According to their stories, those people just "happened" to suffer friendly-fire injuries that got them booted back to some other location. Don't want someone who isn't pulling his weight, still stuck in the middle of the unit. Trump has convinced most of the USA that selfishness is a national virtue. Not sure if anyone on this thread actually fills that "shirker" definition but I felt it bears mentioning. Not a lot of people (in this thread, or, where I encounter people outside TUSCL all over, via internet or daily life) seem to be working on the understanding that epidemics are about group transmission. Who let these idiots get out of grade school with such an unclear notion of the social contracts under which we all live? Well, anyway ...

More info, I just heard that the Bourbon Street (New Orleans) clubs will be allowed to re-open (some have done so already, Penthouse NOLa Facebook page says they're open) but the mayor / city council will require that lap-dances be 6-foot distance (whose "lap" is that big?) and all transactions be by credit-or-debit card only, so no garter-tipping. (LOL, makes me think maybe I can just swipe my card in the slot ... LOL.)

Does my sex-drive go up because I go to strip-clubs or do I go to strip-clubs because my sex-drive has gone up? I've discovered some really good porn but ... did you notice? ... Pornhub recently totally cleared out a LOT of its user-submitted videos. I was getting into those "porn music video" creations, they seemed like a step up from mere in-and-out-on-screen productions. What next, they're going to outlaw Fleshlight-type toys? We'll be back in the barn with the sheep like in the 1540s. Or like in Scotland.

Just spotted a message on the Visions (club in New Orleans) website (and repeated at their Facebook page) that they re-opened on Dec. 10, probably will have to check it out. Hypocrisy here I come. They say they're observing all social distancing, which suggests to me that they're not allowing lap-dances (which were always against the rules anyway; so, erm, "table" dances).

Can't imagine why not. It will be a long time until I am in a group which gets vaccinated, I think, but I'm likely to go ahead as soon as reasonable. Aside from simple lack of availability, and a few allergic or otherwise reactive people, are there other reasons why someone would not get vaccinated?

Also window-girls in Amsterdam. It's a common joke, that all the window-girls (prostitutes) are dating all the local street-cops.

Interesting phenomenon ... wasn't familiar with it. I've turned off all buzzes and dings for incoming texts/emails/messages/notifications, so I think I'm not really participating in the dopamine-ding thing. Have seen other videos from that same YouTube production channel, not sure if the psychological analysis is really accurate and useful, or just the typical scratching-the-surface repeat-the-typical-presumption and yet don't-question-the-assumptions type thing that goes on in most of social media.

Depends on whether you're interested in pay-for-play or not-pay-for-play with those "open minded" women. I think true pay-for-play is reliably available (and enjoyable) only in larger cities, where there's enough of a market to support it. Over the years, among cities in North America, places like Tampa, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, Los Angeles, Chicago, have all had good opportunities, give or take. But if you're looking simply to be able to meet-and-greet civilians, for pick-up style meet-ups (thinking you actually have "game" to enable you to accomplish what you want, with women that you want), then the metrics change somewhat. Not sure if I know my way around those opportunities very well, any more, but I'd suggest looking into your demographic and the women's preferred demographic (college towns, f.e., if the college-age women are into men who are slightly older than college-age and you are exactly slightly older than college-age; etc.). Beware the advice, people say Pittsburgh recently (a) had a renaissance and (b) it's great for young adults, but I've learned that these are true statements only if you're (a) comparing strictly to what Pittsburgh used to be like and (b) are blind to obesity. The walk-culture is a very important thing for the general attitude of a city -- New Orleans has excellent walk-culture, f.e. -- but it doesn't guarantee carnal delights, neither pay-for-play nor even a good population for civilian opportunities. Not sure if this helped ... just some thoughts ...

Hey Longball I miss the opportunity to write those reviews. Your TUSCL history makes you appear to have a lock on the Detroit area, where I've always itched to go, ever since I got wind of the types of clubs in and around the airport there. There appears to be a that ideal combination of lower-class industrial sleaze populated by top-drawer women willing to perform the necessary tasks. Will keep you in mind if that trip ever happens. Can't say as much for anything in the New Orleans area, sorry, though I'm holding out hope (probably very slim) for a change of style after the lockdown ends. Who knows what demographic and economic shifts are in the offing? I'm probably going to be a total hypocrite (of course ... but then, who isn't?) about wanting to be one among the first customers inside the clubs when they open, while also saying people should be more careful about observing the lockdown. Not

Not sure where places are or aren't open, didn't mean to confuse. Sorry if it sounded melodramatic, didn't mean to bark up that mellow dram tree. All of y'all who are competing for annual Darwin Awards, y'all just keep yer competition amongst yerselves over there on the other side of the room OK? I was just sharing some info, still closed here, that's all, just being discuss-and-talk orientated, so to speakify. Didn't mean to try to be celebrating or defending anything (except, can't get out of this one, the notion that during a pandemic it's good to cooperate with disease-reduction measures and it's dumb not to cooperate, that much seems reasonable, though, maybe you like increasing the risk of killing yourself and other people, in which case, go right ahead, just don't involve me personally, we're all theoretically Libertarians here right?). I do like the comment, "too stupid by now ... probably very lucky ..." yeah that's about the size of it. :) Yeesh tough crowd ...

Yeah, I thought about trying that, but I draw the line at making a DIY bathroom troll ...

I think a "socially distanced strip club" is also known as porn-hub, spank-bang, or any other internet porn streaming website.

I know one woman who is a long-time performer at a local club here and also has a back-hoe license. I really laughed when she first told me that fact, several years ago, because of the unavoidable double-entendre, but she did show me the actual laminated document. She also claimed to be a licensed massage therapist and a licensed speech pathologist assistant. I can believe it. They're all jobs (professions?) which allow for individualized time scheduling, independence, and a type of self-made-woman attitude. Recession-proofing by diversification may turn out to be the same as virus-proofing.

Hmm ... another negative encounter with a girl whose name sounds like a mob-boss's name ... not surprised. Too bad about that. It may or may not be the going rate and other customers may or may not spend that amount but really isn't that beside the point? Yeesh! Thanks for your report, MarkPain.

Maybe I'll also test Call-Me-Ishmael's theory here in my local market :)

Thanks for the link Liwet will check it out

Odd to me that people are suggesting Mons Venus and 2001 Odyssey for in-the-club mongering. Mons is a single large room and if there are any clubs in the USA that are just about guaranteed to have no opportunity for extras I'd guess that Mons would be one of them. Otherwise, lots of interesting excellent suggestions, thanks guys! I think it's fun to think this stuff up and share the ideas, but if I do schedule a trip I'll share my itinerary with y'all when it becomes a reality.

... also Vince Michaels, Dougster ...

Necessary variables: club, city, day of week, time of day, number of girls, competition of girls, likelihood of being disapproved by club, by law enforcement, likelihood of getting caught by club, by law enforcement, severity of likely punishment by club, by law enforcement, type(s) of customers, customer expectations, customer desires, customer ability to pay, customer opportunities elsewhere (Asian pull-and-tug joints nearby? other strip clubs that are dirtier? etc.), number of tourists in town, number of tourists not in town, ratio or tourists to locals among clientele, ratio of tourists to locals among dancers, etc. etc. etc. There's no "right" way to make the pricing decision. The free market does its thang and we are all subjet to it, for better or for worse. I think I'd like blowjobs to be in the $25 range. Or, that's what I think at first. But then I think of the girls I've gotten a $25 blow from, and I realize that if the price is that low then the girls are selected by the market dynamics to be rather skanky and disgusting and suddenly I'd rather be getting a $50 blowjob rather than a $25 blowjob. Where I live, and, throughout most of the USA, the days of the $50 blowjob are essentially well over anyway, so my vacillation between $25 and $50 is a mere thought experiment. IMO a decent rate for full-service in any venue in the USA should be roughly $200, maybe $300 depending on many of the factors listed above. That price I base not as much on customer cost, as on dancer cost. The value-added work that is necessary is worth just about that much, I think. She has to give up a portion of her time, risk a certain amount of disapproval or punishment from law enforcement etc., put herself in some degree of danger from not knowing the business partner, etc.. But beyond that amount, any price higher is simply the girl trying to out-price her competitors for the sake of competing. She doesn't want much business, if she's rather do one hour with full service at $1000 every two or three weeks, as opposed to one or two hours a day with full service at $300 each on whichever days she wishes to work. The GPS she's displaying by over-pricing herself, in fact, doubly motivates me to avoid her.

If I thought I could get away with it, I'd be fucking all my attractive female underlings at my non-strip-club businesses all the time. It's not that I think it would be wrong or manipulative or abusive of my power or any other thing like that, to stick my dick into younger women under my purvey who make it vaguely possible for me to stick my dick into them in exchange for supposed promised perks benefits or opportunities at the workplace. I'm not the one who thinks it's wrong. It's that the law thinks it's wrong, and I know enough about the law to know that I'd be a damned inept criminal. So I don't do it. I don't even try, since (these days) women are generally very adept at ruining a person by means of reputation-destruction with an merely accusation (false or not) of sexual harassment or assault. In other words, aren't strip clubs really the only honest businesses left on the planet? Hmm?

For the price of ONE LAP DANCE you can damn well just buy an extension to your VIP membership ... duh ...

I knew of dancers working under names like San Jose Guy, Dirk Dugan, etc. ...

"What makes me want to reach for a walker is when I realize they consider Beastie Boys, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, and Nirvana to be the "golden oldies"." Gaw ... Here's a worse one ... many of this year's incoming freshmen at major North American colleges and universities were not born for the 9/11 attacks. Do the math: if born on September 11, 2001, plus 18 years ... you'll be a freshman or sophomore in September 2019. When I figured that out I just about shit myself. Glad I was wearing my Depends brand adult diapers ...

I also agree, mostly. It's certainly the best eye-candy in New Orleans, and it's also the case that the private rooms are not going to get you anything more than what's within the club rules. But there are potentially some girls who will pay-for-play outside the club, or will at least stretch the rules upstairs later at night, or on off-nights, or when the club is emptying out, or if they need the income. It's not ENTIRELY as rule-oriented and strict as it could be, and it's not ALWAYS as rule-oriented as it sometimes CLAIMS to be, though it usually is. So, essentially, I'll agree that it's strict and not worth getting your hopes up for ANY in-club "extras" but I'll disagree that it's not worth the trip upstairs. I think you can go upstairs and really enjoy an up-close-and-personal snuggle with decent adult-style contact for a 30-minute dance or similar, with a really hot girl, who probably is better spoken and more intelligent about pleasing you in a manner that feels "interpersonal", than at other clubs. High price, yes! If you got it, maybe worth spending it. Just my opinion. Not sure I even needed to say it here, but, heck, it's only a discussion board on the internet. :)