discussion comment
3 years ago
Death by bunga bunga.
NOW I finally understand the concern
discussion comment
3 years ago
I'm skeptical that a cop would go get a subpoena to reverse his google voice line, just because he said "I offer $500 PPM". In fact, I don't think texting that is actionable regardless, much less worth a cop's time to get a subpoena to try to hunt him down. Hell, even if he's going about it like a trick and saying "I'll give you $500 for around-the-world and GFE" or whatever, I don't think it's actionable. But if he just avoids the dollars-for-services discussion... well, never heard of a bust, don't even think it's actionable to just send the text, much less a cop subpoena'ing his google voice line
I still don' understand why it leaves him vulnerable though. Because he names the number in person instead? What if she's an undercover cop? I dunno, it's all confusing to me lol
discussion comment
3 years ago
Why does not talking prices or services over text leave you vulnerable to offering under or over? Why does not discussing over text cause a problem? And why are you afraid to talk about PPM over text, what do you think will happen to you? This entire post fascinates me Monk! (no actual SB will talk "services", so you're mostly dealing with escorts anyway I imagine)
discussion comment
3 years ago
I've heard lots and lots of terrible stories in TRs over the years.
To clarify, if she's asking 1k and your max is 900, sure, bargain. If she's asking 1k and you're offering 450? I'd just walk. Maybe I'm missing out, but like I said, back in the RB days when TRs were explicit, bargaining her way down didn't always work out
discussion comment
3 years ago
I haven't had an OTC in a while, but that sounds like a number from a higher-earner Saturday nightshift girl. Or a girl who is so reluctant that she has to say a high number to make it worth her while. I'd be shocked if dayshift girls in a non-extras club were asking even half that. The whole "this is what a VIP costs, so OTC has to cost some function of that" is something only the most gullible buy into. It ignores way too many factors, it's just a meritless sales tactic ... although maybe meritless isn't the right word, since I"m sure that tactic works with a lot of guys.
On thing for sure, if you're not going to pay the 1k, move on. She's either going to hate you for trying to bargain her down, or be very unhappy on the date.
discussion comment
3 years ago
"Have you guys ever had something like this happen to you before?"
Only all of us lol... or at least all of us who give strippers our numbers. I think by far the #1 lesson: never lend a stripper money. All rules are made to be broken, but this is one that there are VERY few exceptions for. You lending her money fucks up everything, most of the time, leaves you feeling scammed, and now you've lost your CF also. Read 15 stories of PLs lending strippers money, 14 will say they never got paid back. It's just a stupid move -- but also one many PLs make. Making it once is understandable; more than that, you deserve what you get.
And usually the stripper isn't even asking for a loan. She's desperate for $ for whatever reason. She asked for the money outright. You offered her a loan because ... why? Because you don't want to give her a gift, but too much of a little bitch to say no (we've all been little bitches at one point or other, don't take it personally), so you come up with a scheme to get something back. She's desperate, she'll say anything to get her hands on your $. Now it's hers, and no, she's not paying you back. And you've been scammed so you have to fire her, and you're out a CF. Or you don't fire her, and now she has even less respect for you than when you offered her the loan; expect to be treated like a bitch.
Here's a secret: If a stripper is blowing me away in the club, our OTCs are amazing, she's sleeping over in the hotel room, I feel like I'm getting YMMV with her, etc., and she asks for money -- then I'll give her some cash, sure. Why wouldn't I give a bit extra to someone who is being so generous with her time and body to me? But if I ever think, "well, she's not blowing me away so much that I feel like just giving her $250", then I just say no, a loan is not in the cards.
discussion comment
3 years ago
"In my neck of the woods, NYC it's considered one of them best cities to do it, because there are so many sugar babies on available"
I've always heard NYC is a mixed bag. In a way it reminds me of what they used to say about Mitchell Brothers around the year 2000: incredible amount of beautiful women ... if you can afford them, since prices were easily double or triple any other extras club. Places like NY and SF have many, many wealthy men, and have a reputation of allowances being double or triple most other cities. Of course, unlike SF, NY is overflowing with gorgeous women, as the most beautiful women in the world flock there. But in general, for an SD, big fish in a small pond almost always works out better, and in NY, hard to be a big fish. I haven't been an SD there, just the reputation.
discussion comment
3 years ago
(all of this is just speculation, just saying what I observed and what I think might explain it)
discussion comment
3 years ago
nice: number of profiles can be deceiving. For example, a few months into covid, I could run my normal search with my normal parameters, and the number of profiles returned was about the same as usual. This is easiest way to get a basic idea of how many profiles are out there -- run a search and see how many profiles are returned.
However, at this point -- a few months into covid -- once I started really reading the profiles and engaging with SBs, I found an absolutely huge number were "online only" girls, way more than usual. So those girls are not really legit SBs, even though they get returned in your search and make it seem like there's a lot more legit SBs out there than there actually are. Also seemed to be a higher number of escorts than usual, probably moved to SA because their normal business had slowed down. Yet more profiles that are not actual SBs.
So: I don't think the number of profiles actually went down mid-pandemic. But the number of SBs did, what you had was an invasion of online-only girls and escorts. In my area, for my normal search parameters, this has since reversed itself. Perhaps a few more online-only girls than there used to be, but basically business as usual. As many SBs as there ever were. Average PPMs are still down vs pre-pandemic, at least based on how girls respond to what I'll give htem for PPM
To me this all makes sense. Again, the active SBs did not "leave the industry", which implies a major life change. It was more akin to shutting off their Tinder profile. As it got safer, they turned their profiles back on or created new ones, they are still faced with exactly the same financial challenges as they had pre-pandemic, and I would guess there are still fewer SDs out there than there were pre-pandemic relative to the number of SBs who have returned or joined.
discussion comment
3 years ago
The really deep discussion is on this term "industry". You and I might think of it as an industry. Other than the escorts, strippers, and very experienced SBs who are doing this as a job, most SBs I've met don't remotely think of it as an industry. Their experience is not industrialized, and if they decide they don't want to think of themselves as sexworkers, SA makes that easy. It's more like going on Tinder for them: go on the website, make a profile, get lots of male attention and pick, go on "date", discuss allowance, go on more "dates" with that one person. Other than "discuss allowance", and constant attention from johns and scammers, there's no industry, just a website and a financial relationship with one specific person; the decision to have sex with an older man is a huge *personal* decision, there's no other business concerns or commitments as to a strip club or running an escort business. That's why college girls who don't want to think of themselves as sexworkers are still able to emotionally deal with being an SB. It's why it's being an SB is normalized and glorified by young women on tiktok, whereas those same girls would never run around bragging that they're prostitutes. Girls flow into and out of sugar far, far more easily than they flow into and out of stripping and escorting -- that's just a customer perspective, but that's how I perceive it.
Anyway, a lot of words to say, girls flow into and out of sugar far more easily than stripping, from my perspective. It's not like stripping where, once a lot of girls "leave the industry", it can take years to turn around. On SA, things change in weeks or months.
discussion comment
3 years ago
"Lots of girls probably quit the industry because of fears of covid and did not come back"
48: there's a few interesting things in that sentence. The immediate one is your conjecture that lots of girls left -- that's not what happened. There was a time during the middle of the pandemic that lots of girls seemed to leave, but with extra unemployment support running out, college tuition still there, etc... I have not seen any sign there's fewer girls than there used to be. If anything, it may be the reverse: up until the vaccines became available, many old guys were sitting this out and in my area allowances were down. Right now, allowances remain down a bit vs pre-pandemic highs. I do expect that to change as more SDs who were sitting it out jump back in, and inflation roars to life
discussion comment
3 years ago
To do list:
1. Plot painful revenge against Ishmael for posting that link
2. Masturbate
I am considering doing both of these to-do's at the same time.
discussion comment
3 years ago
When we start trying to hypothetical this one, take this into account: I live in what is supposed to be one of the worst areas for SDs. The combination of 1. Many many wealthy men, 2. Many socially awkward men, 3. One of the worst male:female ratios of any big city, all add up to SBs having far more leverage and ability to command high prices here, than almost anywhere else. In most areas, few men wealthy enough to be SDs, plus many many many young women who need financial help = power is far more skewed to the SDs. Tampa is not particularly known as an SB-friendly city.
With all of that in mind: I almost never get asked for $800 PPM. Even the 9s are negotiable below $800. I think I've been asked for $800 or higher twice in the past year, at most.
In short: I don't know what weird thing is going on with Warrior or Tampa, but I'm not seeing it reflected in my area, and this area is about as skewed towards SBs as you can get
discussion comment
3 years ago
These are all phrases and tactics taught on both the escort forums (and escorts who participate on escort forums are incredibly angry), and on the GPS tiktok channels. And not just these phrases and tactics -- it is driven into their heads, until it's internalized, that not meeting your requested $ and any attempt at negotiating is a personal insult. 'course, an escort who just spent two hours with someone, putting on a performance, and now realizes she isn't going to get paid, doesn't need any coaching to be outraged and insulted! lol
discussion comment
3 years ago
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shailynnThey never tell you what you need to know.
There were things about SJG that were amusing. He could be trying, but I think I was generally less bothered by him than most were.
discussion comment
3 years ago
"Also, the fact that you described her as being all over you the entire time also seems unusual for a first meeting."
I agree. I've had first meetings where we just really click, but "all over me the entire time" sounds a bit like a performance -- it evokes a stripper trying to get a guy to the champagne room, more than a high-$ SB vetting a potential SD. The explanation that fits this best is: she might have been a high-$ escort, doing her thing on SA. There are a lot of escorts on SA, many want higher $ because they already make a decent amount from their clients and are putting in extra time and effort on SA, and they are the most likely to want to do a hard sell and have sex on the first date (they can't abide spending a couple of hours not getting paid).
The offense at the lower $ is real. Among the very worst women on SA -- the escorts who are just feigning being SBs, and the ultra-entitled SBs who learned from tiktok that they should have GPS -- any discussion of her price means you are haggling and "don't value her worth".
discussion comment
3 years ago
Or Icee on sneakers! All grown men who are all about sneakers, stop and listen
discussion comment
3 years ago
" I'm hoping as that falls off prices will fall down, but that remains to be seen"
I have to say that in the decades I've been doing this, that has never happened, unfortunately. Prices go up, and even if there's a subsequent recession or whatever, they stay right where they were.
discussion comment
3 years ago
Warrior, I notice that there sometimes seem to be waves of allowance fluctuations. There are longer term trends where PPM asks go clearly higher or lower for everyone, but also little local variations. Sometimes PPM asks will just inexplicably go up because... well, I dunno why, maybe you're just having bad luck, or maybe there's some influencer on tiktok telling all the Tampa SBs "raise your prices, get that bag" or whatever. But then a month later it's all back to normal. SBs aren't organized the way strippers in a strip club are, but I'd swear sometimes they somehow test PPM levels as a group for a couple of months, and if they don't get it, it goes back to normal a couple of months later.
Anyway, bottom line is, don't panic about a month of getting asked higher numbers, could just be a blip. Maybe right now, consider switching the PPM conversation to before you meet them instead of during.
discussion comment
3 years ago
For breakfast, I agree if I were forced to go to a fast food chain, McDonalds would be the one. But these days, that's never necessary. You can find a coffee shop -- chain, or better yet, not a chain -- and get a great coffee and whatever breakfast wrap/melt/sandwich or pastry, and it won't weigh you down like McD's. Since this is about chains, anything but Starbucks, since I find their black coffee undrinkable. Happy to hit a Blue Bottle, Philz, hell I'll even slum it at a Peet's.
If it's a sandwich I want, 100% with you that Jersey Mike's is the stuff. Not too many of them around here, but no brainer for sure.
discussion comment
3 years ago
And, I should add, you can book a dayuse room, and cancel it any time right up to checkin. Pretty useful when you're never sure whehter or not your stripper will actually show
discussion comment
3 years ago
Yeah, luckily there are a decent amount of day use hotels around here. I use both dayuse and hotelsbyday. Sometimes some really really good hotels, that I can book for a few hours ,for the same or less than I'd get from a shitty hotel
discussion comment
3 years ago
There's no real direct replacement foro MBOT. I have not been to Crazy Horse in years, but it used to be a place for limited extras (some girls did HJ, a few did BJ or FS), and I know CH is open again. The Deja Vu clubs are not worth it, teh ones that have extras are dens of skanks and ROBs. I go to DV clubs to arrange OTC
discussion comment
3 years ago
"Found under his photos from his original troll alias as IceyLoco."
Little-remembered fun fact: His original troll was, in fact, Phatboy, or Phatboy Slim or something like that.
discussion comment
3 years ago
I don't care about age one bit -- she just has to be hot enough to be worth it to me to pay for. I imagine if I found a hot enough 45 year old I'd be fine with it... but I've never OTCed with a stripper past her late 20s, and most are low to mid. I've never seen a stripper in her late 30s or older who didn't look rode hard and put away wet. But her age wouldn't bother me otherwise.