discussion comment
3 years ago
"On the issue of water versus alcohol, if I ever start giving a shit what a dancer is drinking when I offer to buy, just shoot me. If I automatically excluded dancers based on what they drink, I'd not have had nearly as much fun over the years."
I think this is a "you have fun your way, I'll have fun my way" statement. I'm the reverse -- I started off in non-alcohol clubs, and over time came to realize I have the most fun drinking with strippers. In fact, it's the reverse: having fun drinking with a gorgeous stripper is part of the reason I love going to the club. Yes, I can have fun with a stripper who isn't drinking, and still occasionally go to all-nude, no-alchohol clubs. So I suss it out quickly ("we're doing shots today"), send her on her way if we're not match -- it's not a big deal, there's plenty of other girls at the club who drink and can show me the time I'm looking for.
discussion comment
3 years ago
Generally speaking, it's been many years since I"ve had a surprise or unpleasant experience around drinks. I find it takes VERY little to guide the discussion towards a reasonable conclusion. Basically, I just guide the conversation to WHAT I WANT out of the experience, rather than leaving it up to her and possibly ending up disappointed. For example:
After she sits down, as soon as I know I like her and want her to stay, I say: "We're doing shots today! Vodka or tequila, you pick!"
IF SHE SAYS either vodka or tequila, I ASK HER what she wants for a back. Then I order for both of us from the waitress.
IF SHE SAYS she isn't drinking alcohol for (reason), I TELL HER we're not a match today and send her on
IF SHE SAYS she wants a mixed drink, or any other alcoholic drink besides shots, I DECIDE WHETHER I'm okay with that. If not, I send her on. If I am okay, I ask her what she wants, and order for both of us when the waitress comes.
IF SHE SAYS I don't drink vodka or tequila you pussy, let's do whiskey then SHE IS MY NEW CF
In short, tell her what you want to get her. Ask her exactly what she wants so you know her order. If you want to drink her and she doesn't drink, send her on. If she wants a $30 dancer drink and you don't want to buy that, send her on. Otherwise, order for you both.
discussion comment
3 years ago
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shailynnThey never tell you what you need to know.
I was all in on this until I saw you don't get to pick your own goat
discussion comment
3 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"Definitely prefer the girls who drink...not to the point of getting sloppy, blackout drunk, but having a few of them is nice. If a girl comes over and sits w/me and says she doesn't drink, kind of a buzzkill "
Drinking with the stripper is a pretty big part of my fun. As a result, if she won't drink, I thank her and move on. I don't care what her excuse is -- she's a recovering alcoholic, she just got over the flu, she drank too much last night and can't drink today. If she can't drink with me, she's not the girl I'm looking for tonight. If she drank too much last night or just got over the flu -- hey, no hard feelings, I'd love to hang out in a few weeks when I'm back. Recovering alcoholic? Awesome and I wish you well in your recovery, but you're not my girl.
discussion comment
3 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Drinking with an hot stripper is definitely one of my goals. My end goal is different from Rick's -- I don't OTC right after a shift, typically, I am trying to set up OTC for a different day when she's fresh. In the club, I'm trying to get her in a party mood, loosen myself up a bit, and get as much mileage as I possibly can in the back. Agree with everyone that a lot of these girls are not fun drunks, so keeping them in the "buzzed to very buzzed" zone is critical.
discussion comment
3 years ago
My #1 choice is shots with the dancers. If I don't have a stripper I'm interested in enough to do that, usually I won't drink alcohol, just nurse a coke. Occasionally I'll get a beer instead -- whatever their best beer is, which often still means a Coors or something lol
discussion comment
3 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
TIL: Alcohol was invented in the 1600s :)
discussion comment
3 years ago
Well, we were looking to understand why a guy would pay for pics in this day and age, and now we have one. Maybe he'll do a AMA
discussion comment
3 years ago
I suspect that if the clubs return to pre-covid levels of business, we'll see some dayshifts open back up. Gold Club in particular will open back up for dayshift, when/if people return to working downtown and more importantly, when Moscone Center starts having big events again. Their dayshifts were often absolutely packed, so makes little sense to close it if the crowds come back. The North Beach clubs are iffier, they were slooooow during dayshifts (which is why I liked them)
discussion comment
3 years ago
Oldest stripclub: Condor club. 3/3 :)
discussion comment
3 years ago
Good post nice. I think the key, a topic on which I have little insight, all rests with younger millennial and GenZ men. I can make some guesses based on what I see, but that's about the extent of it. I don't think the other factors, such as sexworker-aged women, or broader societal mores, have anywhere near as much impact.
With older men, nothing is changing. We did not grow up with social media, our brains aren't rewired for social media to give the same rewards as in-person sexual gratification, we are (for now) relatively wealthy, and we'll continue seeking out in-person options for sexual interactions.
My "get of my lawn" view of younger men is that the societal trend is emasculating, and they are embracing to those trends with little pushback. In addition, they DID grow up with social media, their brains give them a pleasure reward for social media interactions that is baffling to older men. Strip clubs seem to be (just a perception I have, no proof) the most vulnerable part of the sex industry, and I wouldn't be shocked to see them decline. They have competition from OF, which is low-effort, low-risk, and very low $ barrier to entry, and many young men choose to spend their $ there. There's always escorts, which are less public. And as sugar gets normalized and evolves more of a low end, I wonder if that will suck off some attention also.
Mostly baseless conjecture, and definitely hope I'm wrong
discussion comment
3 years ago
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TetradonI'll act nicer if you'll act smarter.
"8 - you elbow your buddy so he does not miss her and you talk about how you'd like to bang her. All the guys on the beach are watching her go by.
9 - guy activity pauses as she walks by. guys are snapping pictures. guys are starting to get up and walk in the same direction as her to see where she is going so they can go in there too. the boldest guys will even hit on her.
10 - If she stopped she would draw a crowd. She is already walking with one or more guy friends because she has learned not to walk the beach by herself. That's to prevent random strangers from trying to walk with her and hit on her. That still happens, but not as much."
I love the notion of assessing hotness based on how people around her act -- basically crowdsourcing her hotness rating :) A few years ago I jokingly suggested something similar. Along the lines of:
Who cares? Not considered in this assessment. Below a 7.5.
She gets lots of head turns. Not just one here or there, lots. Guys clearly notice her. This translates from 7.5-8.4ish?. As you suggest, perhaps some elbow-bumping of buddies is occurring above an 8.
If you watch her from from above, everywhere she goes there's a clear "wave" of turning heads, elbow bumping, crowds parting. I got this one from an ATF-turned-SB, I could always tell where she was in the crowd by the ripple of excitement that surrounded her as she walked through the crowd, and then behind the wave was the wake of guys recovering to their previous convos. I think this is 8.5-9+.
My last rating is another ATF turned SB, where not only do you have that wave, but guys stop what they're doing, change their behavior completely. I've seen guys walking in a line, when one sees her, he puts his arms out to stop the others to look. Guys walking by say things to me and high five me (which I find hysterical). Women hit on her. I think this is the mid 9s and up -- at this point I'm a believer in the dushku limit where it's ridiculous to assign a number, it's just an incomprehsible level of hotness.
discussion comment
3 years ago
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TetradonI'll act nicer if you'll act smarter.
Tetra, I don't think most people grade that way, although the middle of the range (5) makes perfect sense to be average. The other natural way to think of it, along A-F grading scales where a C is a 7, is not right either. I'm not talking about how it should be, just my perception about how groups of guys use this. Oddly enough, I think for most people, a 6 is average (and most guys won't want to pay to fuck a 6, though many will), a 5 is unattractive and it goes down from there.
Perhaps some people conflate sexual desirability and physical beauty, I know I do sometimes. If I'm the slightest bit attracted to her and would fuck her, she's at least a 7; if I'd pay, she's a 7.5 or higher.
chessmaster did a thread years ago where he proposed some standards for the various levels, and I think I remember it being more aligned with yours. His 8s were downright hot, when they go to the grocery store or the local bar they're almost always the hottest girl, and then it went up from there.
discussion comment
3 years ago
yep, that's the place! I haven't been yet. Do they still have that goofy thing for VIPs where you give the cash to the bouncer?
discussion comment
3 years ago
"The most important thing for a dancer is how much money she can make in a club"
This is, by far, the biggest motivating factor. A small % of strippers have other priorities, but for the vast majority -- and especially the ones with the biggest earnings potential (often the hottest) -- this is priority #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 and #5.
That said, often things are intertwined, it's not like having a super nice club decor is completely unrelated to all the other factors. Nice club decor is often tied into management targeting higher-wage customers, who in turn have more $ to spend. It doesn't always work out that way, the nicest club in SF has trouble pulling customers, and as a result the best-earning strippers are fine working in clubs that aren't as nice. But in general, the upscale clubs have better decor, and better customers, andthat's where the strippers go
discussion comment
3 years ago
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gothamytefrom that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
I fell for a scam pre-club that I thought was brilliant.
I pull into one of the many small parking lots around the club -- it was an unusually busy weekend in the city so most of them were full. As is common, the attendant comes over, I give him my cash, he gives me a receipt to put on the dash and tells me which spot to park in. I leave and go to the club. I come back and I have a parking ticket on my car -- failure to pay the parking fee.
I contact the parking authority, and it seems like the local grifters have been running a scam where they will go into an unattended parking lot (when the parking lot is unattended, you're supposed to put money in a secure cashbox on the lot), impersonate the parking attendant, collect fees from suckers (aka, me) for as long as they can while handing out fake parking receipts, and then leave. Then the parking authority comes by an hour later, sees the fake receipts, and tickets all the suckers (aka, me). Evidently it had been happening for a while, they look for unattended lots and make a killing in a short time before an attendant arrives.
discussion comment
3 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
"So never share your real name, never let her see receipts, or venmo/paypal money over."
I obsessively protect my real name and other details at first. But after we've seen each other a while, if I've seen no behavior to be alarmed about, I drop that. Typically we know each others' real deets. I wonder if there's a different lesson here Steve. Can you say honestly that this wacko wasn't showing crazy, inconsistent, or otherwise some type of red flag behavior before this happened? I think it's incredibly rare for someone to go from completely normal sane person, to attempted stalker and blackmailer, with absolutely no sign at all. They show these signs, we ignore it because we like the sex and don't want to address it.
I think the lesson here is: vet the hell out of your SB -- as much as it sucks, a platonic meet&greet at the beginner vets out a LOT of terrible women, you just have to deal with not having sex this one time. Then, be on your guard of red flags, don't ignore them, and adjust your security appropriately. You do not have to hide your real name from a decent well-adjusted SB.
If you can't do that, or you know that for your personally the excitement of the sex turns off your crazy chick radar, then yes, hide your details forever.
discussion comment
3 years ago
I've never heard of such a thing! The only times I've ever seen strippers in costume is on Halloween, and typically customers are not in costume. I would not ever dress up in a costume regardless, but I love seeing the girls in Halloween costumes, and would love to see them in cosplay, superhero, kittens, or whatever costumes
discussion comment
3 years ago
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EveWhere there's a hole, there's a way. [HIATUS]
Okay, I HAVE TO choose one, no going home without doing one or the other. Easy one for me.
In a typical club, the least attractive girl to me is REALLY unattractive, often grossly so. No interest in anything from her.
Air dance with the hottie, it's just $20, and use the post-dance socializing to hit her up for OTC. If I'm stuck having to do one, I'll take the useless airdance, and hope to turn the $20 into a recurring win
discussion comment
3 years ago
Have at least a full body pic. Some SBs will entertain SDs who don't have any pics at all, but many don't
discussion comment
3 years ago
I've done this at a stripper's house, once just for a one-off OTC, and a couple of times with long-term ATFs. I do agree with whodey that technically, the risk is for more on her than on you. That said, I don't think it's irrational to be extra-cautious around strippers, especially if you don't know them well. Hotel prices are still pretty cheap and you can go on a dayuse app to get a hotel room even cheaper. Why not do it that way the first time?
discussion comment
3 years ago
"@subra The reason I don't throw a number out on the site or over text is because I'm afraid of scaring away the true SB's who don't want to think of themselves as whores"
LM, I think you have the right idea, flawed execution. Right idea: don't treat her like a whore. Flawed execution: the only thing the girls hate more than being treated like a whore, is having sex with a scammer "salt daddy" who has no intention of paying her. IME 90% of allowance negotiation happens over text. If you take 1000 guys who refuse to discuss allowance over text, 999 are going to be scammer salt daddies or PUAs. The SBs have no idea you're the remaining one guy. The SBs won't get scared away if you bring up allowance, as long as you don't behave like a trick when you do it (e.g. refer to it as rates or services).
"but also because I fear creating a digital record of myself soliciting."
My read is that this is incredibly far-fetched. Like I said, you think even if you're talking to an undercover (and undercover SBs are practically unheard of), you think they're going to subpoena google to get your google voice line, all to hit you up on a minor misdemeanor? And in most cities/states, just offering $ for sex over text isn't even enough for a bust without an act of furtherance. AND, you're not going to be offering $ for sex anyway -- you're going to be offering $400 for PPM (or whatever) without any mention of sex or services, and then arrange a platonic M&G.
Anyway, the #1 thing to put an SB at ease is to bring up allowance and give her a number she's happy with. Really really tough to gain trust otherwise. And now I see why you're at a disadvantage -- you're not giving allowance numbers, so you can't see if girls are accepting or rejecting those #s
discussion comment
3 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
On the Ashley maddison thing, agree it's best to stay anonymous. On your profile, as DS said, fake email, fake address, burner number. Be careful on the purchased credit card -- in fact, most of these WILL NOT work, SA uses an offshore processor and most of these cards don't support offshore charges. Some do though, so it's just a matter of doing a little research to find the right card. Don't use face pics, and make sure your body pics can't be reverse-searched to your real social media or wherever
discussion comment
3 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
"The girls do not like to think they are sex workers so you have to talk to them differently than strippers or escorts."
There's a learning curve to interacting with SBs that I found fascinating, and absolutely I got better and better at. This isn't needed if you're open to escorts -- there's tons of them on SA, and no learning curve needed for most PLs. This also isn't needed if you're open to exploiting the ignorance of the never-ending waves of new and intimidated young women who don't know how things are supposed to work and are afraid to ask about your intentions or allowance -- you can exploit, fuck, and traumatize new girls who are afraid to bring up allowance and don't know how to properly vet you, tons of scumbags on PUA type sites relaying stories of how to do this.
But if you want to engage with SBs and aren't looking to take advantage of them, there is this interesting balance -- on the one hand, as warrior said, they don't want to think of themselves as sexworkers so talk to them more like civilians, in such a way that they feel safe (experienced SBs are confident but many new ones are justifiably terrified). But at the same time, you have to get across that you're offering "benefits", and also vet them so that you can avoid the many MANY scammers. It's not that difficult to strike that balance, honestly, just a little bit of a learning curve as you figure out what's too forward, and what's not forward enough. There's a few easy things to do that will vet out many of the most toxic and escort types very quickly, which gives you some room to have a softer touch with whomever remains
discussion comment
3 years ago
"I think some of you guys doing talking "services and rates" are maybe going about this a lot different way."
Right. As soon as someone starts talking about services and rates, I know they're just on SA looking for an escort -- and if they're not, they're acting like a john, and using john terms, so that's who they're more likely to find. Which is totally fine, do what makes you happy man. But the real fun comes when you go native on being an SD and getting actual SBs.