discussion comment
8 years ago
Agreed on the tell a bouncer part, but do so calmly and maybe with a tip of a dollar or two and also say you're planning on leaving.
A. This is part safety. More than likely, this other guy's all talk. But if he gets up to follow you out, then the bouncers will keep him from doing so and will be attuned to the fact you are fearing for your safety. They'll know what you said he threatened, and if he means it and starts pursuing you, they'll include that in any statement they make when they call the authorities, not to mention he might not be smart enough to not say it again after the bouncers get hold of him.
B. It's also to let the club know: Hey, I want to be a good customer and I'm not just messing with you guys, but this is freaking me out. Hopefully they'll give you some free passes on your way out then talk with the guy after you leave.
discussion comment
8 years ago
They're not real. She may try to say they are, but they're not. They don't move right. It's particularly noticeable in person.
If she'd like to either prove me right or wrong with an extended test session of my choosing, I would gladly take her up, though.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Let me echo the sentiment about FC and PH. I personally have had far better luck at Penthouse, but my best experience of three at FC was in my Top 5 all-time.
Those two clubs are pretty amazing, no doubt. Have never been to the other places, but relative to the rest of the Midwest, Detroit is where it's at. The girls in Chicago's glam clubs are maybe as pretty, but you spend the similar money and get 1/10 the mileage. And nowhere else comes close.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Dillion Harper. Cute, kinda busty, enjoys herself.
She features now and I saw her dance here. Had some good and bad going for her. Looked good, though she has fake boobs that don't exactly move naturally when she's bouncing around on stage and she wore a less-than-flattering blonde wig. Got into the crowd and gave a lot of the guys with one party mini lap dances, which had to have been sweet, but she skipped by me a few times by the stage, which made me feel a little left out of the fun. I left both impressed and unimpressed, if that's possible.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Longest title ever, but:
"When Do I Go To Detroit? Making The Most of Two-Way Contact, and Constantly Failing to Get OTC, in a Non-Extras Part of the World."
discussion comment
8 years ago
I have been to HB's twice and walked away thoroughly unimpressed. Maybe one or two dancers I wanted to get dances from each time, and the dance quality was poor. Plus, the ATM fee was ridiculous.
I very much prefer the type of dancer there is on a Saturday night at Scores or PoleKatz to what I encountered at HB's. There are some who might call that type of dancer "fake" or "overdone." I guess that's just my taste.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Plausible. Definitely not the club I was at.
They were with three other girls who weren't as hot and a blonde guy. They looked like they might have been part of a band or something.
discussion comment
8 years ago
My all-time ATF was a lovely Italian woman who danced on the south side of Chicago. I think -- think -- she had aspirations once upon a time of being an actress and a dancer, even appearing as an extra in a few films and TV shows. She then went to school for psychology, then was a massage therapist for a while and is now (I think) a real estate agent. She had thick, black shoulder length hair and enhanced breasts that were either a large C or a small D with olive skin.
We had awkward conversation the first time we met, but then she did dances for me and I was in awe, and it was afterward that our conversation got better and deeper. One of her first moves in the lapper room was usually to do the splits across the couch onto you, which was just amazing.
I think it was the second time we got dances together, I breathed out a sigh in her ear as she was spread eagle across me and she instantly went all goosebumpy. It was one of those "Damn" moments.
I subtly inquired about OTC as I was massaging her hands once after a dance and she said she strictly didn't as a rule, though she was clearly enjoying the massage and said, "I've never come closer to thinking about breaking the rule, but I want to keep it a rule." I didn't want to push her too much, though.
Shame she retired from the dancing biz. Dunno if it will ever get any better than that.
discussion comment
8 years ago
It was just an off night.
I wasn't in my local scene. I was out of town at a place that usually produces far better results. I only visit once a year, if that.
discussion comment
8 years ago
I went to Admiral once when they had Tera Patrick as a feature. Got an air dance and left. Found the place to be really lame and have never been back.
Polekatz and Scores allow one-way contact with some dancers letting two-way sneak in there for the lappers. Prices, yes, are ridiculous, and the rooms are too pricey to even consider. But the talent is also largely top shelf, which is why I go. Extras are rare, but possible.
That's part of what I'm hoping -- some competition will either bring prices down or make that two-way contact even more common. A man can hope.
Current avatar is Ashley Sinclair. I'm a big fan.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Count me among those who ended up with the telltale red streaks on the front of the pants. Except I was wearing khakis, which made it even more obvious.
It's embarrassing for both you and the dancer when you have to find her after the dances and tell her she should probably get, check or replace her tampon.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Chastity is both why I started clubbing and what I hope to relieve by doing it. So ... no, that's silly.
discussion comment
8 years ago
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SubramanCar key and wallet dating your sister
Keep in mind, on SW, that's rather have to do no work and have you just come in and lay money at their feet. Of course they don't want to talk; talking makes them no money and decreases throughput. But yeah, as a guy, I think some talk should be had so she gets to know you and you her.
I will say anywhere between 5-15 min. is enough. If the conversation is interesting and you both want to roll with it, so be it. If it's not, however, have an out if you decide you either don't want to talk or get dances, as then, you're just wasting both people's time.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Generally speaking, yes, waste of dough.
I will replay the story of the one time it went well:
Two dancers, with whom I had gotten dances with both separately before. Both busty blondes. One was simply a Swedish Barbie type with greatly enhanced boobs, kind of balloonish. The other was a sexy minx who had been enhanced in a more subtle way. A very healthy C, if not a D. We had hit it off quite well in a previous trip, talking for at least an hour. In our previous dance session, I asked her to stop at one point because I didn't want to LDK on her, and she appreciated that.
Anyhow, it was the latter girl's birthday, or at least that's what she claimed. She was somewhat inebriated and was tag-teaming with the Swedish blonde. Both remembered me, especially the birthday girl. Against my better wishes, they talked me into a two-girl. But after a while, the birthday girl settled into essentially using her chest against my crotch, remembering that was what I liked, while the Swedish one rubbed her balloons all over my face and chest.
At one point, the birthday girl said, "Remember that thing you didn't want to do the last time?" I did. "I want you to do it for me tonight."
That was really hot. And I did.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Detroit is about a six-hour drive for me and business occasionally takes me in that direction.
But once, my SO was out of town for a weekend for work. I had some Saturday afternoon business, then was free and clear the rest of the weekend, so I scheduled a drop-in, drop-back flight to Detroit for one night of fun. Saved up a healthy amount of money to make it worthwhile. Flew out on Saturday evening, came back Sunday afternoon. Got a cheap hotel room and rental car to make OTC possible, though I didn't follow through on that piece. Made the most of the trip to Penthouse: Happy endings with two different ladies, probably both 8.5s or so, within two hours. It was like being in my own, multi-scene porno with me as the star. Massive outflow, sure, but one of the best nights of my life and worth it. Didn't even have to burn any vacation time.
If you can save up about $1K total for flight, car, room and club experience, and can spare the time, I recommend it. Not for everyone, but if you can, it's pretty sweet.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Deuce: One club I frequent has a super posh VIP room. Multiple thousands of dollars per hour. Boggled my mind as to why anyone would go down there. Then a dancer told me about it: It has video & board games, Twister, multiple TVs, a fireplace and whatnot, plus yes, basically no rules and drinks on the house. So if you get a group of guys together that just wants to do bro stuff with any naked women from the club of their choice for a special occasion, then yeah, have them pool their resources and that room could be an awesome time. When I thought about it like that, and not your typical one-on-one room, it made more sense.
Flip side and on topic, once had a girl I routinely got dances from who was feeling ill one night. Had to work to try and pay the bills, but was really struggling with an awful headache. She talked me into a dance, but was really struggling. I let her just sit with her head on my shoulder for the three minutes. Told her to make it up to me some other time.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Only trust a Backpage ad if you cross-reference it with a review site (like TER) that has a solid number of decent reviews for the girl. Live Escort Reviews is a site that does some of the cross-referencing up front.
Yes, most of the girls on Backpage are actually sex workers. But the vast majority either use fake pics or use real ones that make it clear you wouldn't want to touch them with a 10-foot pole. A lot of the in-between ones will have reviews -- crappy reviews. If it looks too good to be true, when you check the reviews (or lack thereof), you find out, it almost assuredly is.
For better results, I suggest skipping Backpage and using Eros. Still cross reference there, though. Also, know that your most difficult escort visit will be your first, as most of the halfway-decent providers want a reference, either from a paid service like RS2K (which I don't trust not to get hacked) or from another established escort. There are some who will accept a first-timer, but you'll have to jump through hoops to prove you're not a cop, such as offering up your name, sending a picture of your driver's license, having her call you at work, etc.
I've grown to far prefer the club circuit to dealing with escorts. WYSIWYG at a club. Often not so with the escort game.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Subra: I think you make a valid point with regards to 99 percent of dancers. I suppose I should rephrase from "a dancer" to "a smart dancer with her head screwed on straight," like the first two I described in point 1 above (I could tell the third one still had some issues).
I would not be opposed to being involved with a dancer, but I wouldn't get involved with anyone who makes other poor life choices. I'd drop anyone who does that. Yes, there are a rare few out there for whom they dance, but don't make other poor life choices. They're the ones that tend to be my favorites.
discussion comment
8 years ago
I feel like Subra's approach above is both damn solid and most in line with mine.
This is where I think it's a good idea to post the Tucker Max article about the best way to get in a woman's pants: Earn her trust. http://thoughtcatalog.com/tucker-max/2015/10/guys-heres-what-its-actually-like-to-be-a-woman/
I think a lot of your experience with a dancer breaks down to the initial conversation you have with her on the floor. If either of you -- you or her -- just breaks with convention and cuts to the chase about mileage in the first couple minutes of talk, it's clear one of you doesn't really care about the other's satisfaction, and it's hard to trust someone when that happens.
- For the dancer, the guy that asks about mileage that fast isn't going to care about tipping, not being too rough, either her rules or the club's rules, if she gets fired, whatever. So yeah, not a desirable customer at that point.
- For the customer, the girl who just wants to be dirty and nasty right away isn't even taking the time to think about what feels good to the guy. The ones that are real up-front and pushy strike me as the ones too desperate for cash. More than likely, these girls are either going to be a dead fish once you pay for the dance up front, or are going to do what they think works, not try and read you to see what works for you. I'm an individual, too, damn it.
A dancer who has good conversation in the beginning gives you a good feel for what she'll be like. If she's lackadaisical and disinterested, her dances will be the same. If she's flirty, fun and interested, and doesn't seem to be faking it, those dances will be fun. If you show you're smart, courteous and trustworthy, but a little freaky, she'll generally let you push boundaries, because she probably sees herself the same way. If I can sneak in a little backrub, nice and solid with a couple fingers under the shoulderblades, that usually shows I can be trusted to care about her comfort, too, which she might interpret as "good tipper" and "enjoyable customer." Often times, if she's open to that and actually likes it, she'll be open to just a lot of other touches as well. Rare exceptions, but I find they do tend to be exceptions.
I usually make it known in the conversation that I'm a good guy, considerate, polite, but with one big vice, which is why I'm at the club. My answers to a lot of common dancer questions work around that principle:
- "Have you been here before?" "Yes, but it's been a while." I am aware of the ways of the club, but I'm not a skeezy regular freak. I have self-control; but I like to get what I want. I usually up the amount of time since my last visit. If it's been four weeks, I say three months. Makes it sound like there's a reason for them to try and work hard to entice me back.
- I sometimes counter with "How long have you been working here?" Dancers with very short tenures might not know or care about the rules yet; dancers with long tenures might have their longevity because they've figured out how to work around the rules. In the middle (six months to two years) tends to be bad.
- (At a non-extras club) "What do you like to do here?" "I get dances, mostly. I'll occasionally do rooms, but I start to feel like you're just giving a middleman a cut for what two people can do on their own." I only give this answer if I'm actually considering dances. Otherwise, I say I'm just here to hang out. This makes it known that I am conscious of rules in place, as well as OTC, and have a subtle disdain for them. It also makes the dancer feel like a room can be possible with effort and allowing things to slip here and there.
- "How often do you come here?" "Eh, every couple months or so. I travel, so I end up in different places like this. It's weird how things are different from one place to another." This is where I bring up how some places have a lot of rules to protect the girls, while places like Detroit kind of let anything go. This implies that I know various clubs have different rules and that I may not be used to, or a fan of, more restrictive ones. If a girl here starts talking about how happy she is to be someplace with a lot of rules and bouncers to protect her, I kinda know the dance will suck because she's already walling me off. This is also when either I'll ask, or dancers will mention, if they've danced in other places. If I hear a girl has danced in an extras-friendly part of the world (Detroit, Miami, Texas, L.A., etc.), I perk up.
At an extras club, the conversation beforehand is just as important. You're probably paying about 5-10× more for extras than you are a simple dance, but what good is it if you don't hit it off with the dancer? Even a super hot dancer with a shitty attitude doesn't get it done for me. But if she's willing to not only do something with you, but seem like she actually likes you while doing it, then hell yeah, it's worth it.
I find that good conversation at an extras club often leads to a dancer offering up if she has a menu on her own when she wants the conversation to turn toward making money. At a place like Penthouse, they know the drill, they know it will come up eventually, and they'd rather be the one that gets the money you brought, not some other girl. If it doesn't come up, then yeah, 2/3 of the way through a dance isn't bad. By then, you know if you want more (or don't). If she says she has no menu at that point, then hey, you're only out a couple dances and you move on.
discussion comment
8 years ago
It would be about time for Cuoco. Get those puppies out before sagging & the surgery combine for a bad mix, girl.
Charlotte McKinney, too. I saw Dancing With The Stars -- those things are all you've got, hon. Just show them off already.
Hendricks we've kind of seen. They're alright. With Mad Men done, though, I think she's going to continue to try and become a serious actress. Which is fine. She's getting older, we've seen 'em and it's better to find sustaining work.
Emma Stone has never quite done it for me. I dunno why. Something about her droopy eyes.
List fails without Taylor Swift and Katy Perry, preferably together in a PPV catfight (it'll be all over the Internet the next day, anyhow). If you're going to ask, just out-and-out ask.
discussion comment
8 years ago
There's a lot of stuff going on with this.
1. Yes, a lot of strippers aren't all that smart. But let's dispel the notion they're all high school dropouts.
One of my ATFs was a woman who claimed to have a masters. She didn't show me her diploma, so that might have been BS, but in our discussions, I discovered she was in a field I knew something about and she definitely didn't bullshit her way out of questions where knowledge of terminology and concepts was needed. She was ridiculously smart and thoughtful, and oh by the way, a damn fine dancer, too.
Another ATF routinely writes poetry on social media. While she's not TS Elliot, I have found some of her stuff more poignant and thoughtful than some of the casual drivel other creatives I'm friends with assemble.
Yet another offered some rather awesome extras, and followed through, in a non-extras club. I sought her out on social media and found out she had previously been enlisted in the army and had been commended for her work on duty.
You can be smart and "do this." In fact, I think the smart ones are sometimes better able to write off the idiot custies, and other dancers doing drugs and handling their money stupidly, as just that -- idiots.
I know with the first girl I described, she gave up dancing, but I think it was probably due more to the occasional guy like me who came in and actually challenged her intellectually rather than the stupidity. She was entertaining the idea of OTC until I told her I had a SO, which I did because she was starting to talk about having me meet her friends and whatnot. At that point, she turned off to me big time. I think she wanted me as a boyfriend moreso than a customer.
Nonetheless, I think it's possible for the smart to do this and do well.
2. Being smart and having earning capacity are two different things. Sometimes, intelligence gives you a better understanding of how your actions impact others, which makes you not as ruthless as other go-getter businessmen who are just out to get what they want and don't care if they're taking your cash.
I think a lot of girls who are comfortable with their sexual nature who are smart and have scruples will do this just for the money. Find guys with excess income they're willing to part with, get it by doing what comes naturally and no one gets hurt. Oddly enough, that may seem better ethically than being in a medical field and bilking people in need of medical help who are already low-income for high-priced services, or trying to squeeze out the highest price on a car for someone who just needs an affordable ride to work.
3. I feel bad for dancers issues with men because it shouldn't be that way. I, personally, would absolutely love to be involved with a dancer. But I know my parents, co-workers, friends and others would really look down upon me for it. That's the damn shame moreso than anything.
So she lets other guys have pieces of the pie -- seeing her naked, copping feels, maybe even providing extras, whatever. I'm fine with that. She's giving me the best pieces of the pie, probably whenever I want, for nothing. That's still better. Plus, a girl who has a guy who's OK with that, if she's not hypocritical, should afford her man the same courtesy as well. So if I'm with a redhead, but one night a blonde catches my fancy and things work out, no big deal. Awesome for all. I am not the jealous type in that way, and I would hope she wouldn't be, either. Everyone's happier when everyone gets the pie they want.
Again, it's not me that has the hangups -- it's the people around me, and they make it difficult for me to be with a dancer, not the dancer or me. As such, it's only the guys without those hangups -- no family, no job, no one to look down on them -- that are available. And that sucks.
I am aware of dancers who have good men in their lives. They basically make the point to keep their stripper lives as secret as they can, with only their man, their trusted customers and maybe some trusted family in on it. Like I say, it's more of an indictment of our society's silly way of looking at sexuality than anything. It's just something we do, and there's a lot of worse things we do in terms of negative impact on people. Done well, everyone leaves happy -- she gets the money she needs to sustain herself, I walk away happier and validated, and if I play my cards right, she probably enjoys things, too. Who loses?
discussion comment
8 years ago
My trip to Dancers last year felt like a waste of time. Two girls of 20 worth getting dances with. One (a 9) got pulled into the VIP with a guy most of the night. The other (an 8) was fun, but rather strict about rules and not allowing touching. I also found the lapper room seats very uncomfortable.
At Brad's, I hit it off nicely with a younger redhead with glasses. Did some dances and a session in the Brass Room. Got the impression she might have entertained OTC if I was willing to wait until the end of the night, but I both think that was just our chemistry and know I had an early morning the next day. She was much more loose about where I could put my hands than the Dancers girl.
Rio seems like a risk in terms of dancer quality, from what I've read. Call me crazy, but I'd rather get solid lappers with two-way contact from a 9 that lets me fondle her D's than get extras from a 5 or 6. If there are 8s or 9s handing out extras, that's another story, but I've only seen that at the Penthouse Club and with one girl in Chicago who I think was trying to get fired. Given Indy had struck me as a place with a pretty solid ceiling of 7 or 8 at Brad's, I fear the drop-off at Rio.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Once upon a time, I went about once every three months. When finances became less of an issue, it became about once a month. Now, it's probably about once every two weeks on average.
I went without for about six weeks once when I felt like I had kind of seen/done it all. It was kind of a new year's resolution. Even tracked how much I was saving. Finally broke down once and went and it was one of the best trips I ever had. Realized then that it will probably be a part of me for a long time.
I'm sitting at about three weeks right now and it's driving me a little bit batty. Headed on the road soon, though, and there are better clubs away from home than there are around me, so I see it as just kind of "saving up" for shooting for a big score.
discussion comment
8 years ago
Good find. Lots of bounce to the ounce. Seems eager to please.
A little surprised she doesn't have a better sports bra for those running scenes. That can't be comfortable.
Also, while Asian ladies, particularly if they're of mixed ethnicity like Tera Patrick or Kira Kener, are definitely hot, Asian guys in porn just seem out of place to me, especially when it's a voluptuous, curvy woman and a short, skinny guy who looks like he could get knocked over with one swing of her boobs. We need to import some of these ladies here to have proper co-stars.
discussion comment
8 years ago
I asked a particular extras club dancer who seemed fairly open about both the biz and her willingness to perform those services about this once. She basically said no, they don't tell you anything. The "shoes outside the curtain" thing is something you pick up on, either from the other dancers or the bouncers.
She did say, though, the club kind of implies it with two things: What they tell you about rules and the tipout. If they give you a stern lecture about VIP room rules when you start and the tipout can be covered with a few lappers, it's probably not an extras club. If they don't tell you anything about rules other than what you should wear on the floor, and the tipout is really high, girls will find a way to get there.