discussion comment
17 years ago
Lopaw: I think the expression is "it COMES with the territory" (and with a slight spelling correction, is very appropriate!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Some of us are looking for more than a "hint"...
discussion comment
17 years ago
Bones:
Aren't you the generous one! Uhh... if/when we meetup in Indy or Kokomo, I'm sorry to say that >>I<< am not that generous... don't expect me to give up MY favs! (you might've noticed that I've not mentioned the names of ANY of my ATFs (past or present), nor have I given you the name of the girl from my last experience that I related to you...
Sorry... I'm a selfish man!
discussion comment
17 years ago
I've never been asked personally - maybe it's because most dancers have no clue what "IT professional" means... or "DBA". I HAVE helped one dancer that had some problems with her computer. One of my buds has her in his "harem", and had bought her the computer so that she could email with him, etc. She crashed it somehow, and my friend asked me to call her up and try to help her out. Why not? It's always fun to talk to an attractive girl...
discussion comment
17 years ago
What, none of the standards like "Closer" by Nine Inch Nails?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yeah, I'd definitely say it's an addiction of mine. I think I'd addicted to pretty women, and it's not an addiction that I want to get over at this point.
I don't go to clubs that often, though it's not because I'm not wanting to - it's because of the distance (1.5 hr drive minimum to a club of any value). If I lived in Indianapolis, or Kokomo, I'd probably be divorced and living in a homeless shelter.
There's a good chance that I'm a sex addict, I suppose.
Bones: with the arrival of Saint Ohio, does that mean that you will be venturing west more often to the likes of BBF and HH?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Bones: If I weren't reading posts on this site (and others), I don't think I would have any doubt about Miss ATF, what she says and what her intentions are. BUT, because of the eye-opening things that I have read, it's really difficult to NOT have doubts. I DO know that she is divorcing her husband, and is in the process of finding a new place to live. I also know that she's not leaving him to be with me, but she does indicate that when she is "single" the door will be open to me. I s'pose that means that in the not-so-distant future, if I don't actually see the opened door, I will have my answer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
First, I could NOT deal with my wife stripping. As it is, I'm having a hard time with my ATF dancing. Yes, I'm a jealous guy and I hate the thought of other guys touching her, even though I know she needs the money and she's a "clean" dancer. If things continue in the direction I think they're going, I could find her and I "together". At which point, she would no longer have to dance and would be "retired", but I think I would still have those thoughts about all of those guys during her career. I'm not sure how I would handle those thoughts... or if I could.
I know, I didn't answer the questions directly, but I think you know what my answers would be.
discussion comment
17 years ago
It sounds to me like touching BOTH ways is not allowed while being nude or semi-nude. Does that imply that touching is not inhibited at a bikini club? I THINK it does.
Also, the clause "who is not a member of the employee's immediate family"... I think that cries to have a justice of the peace on hand at the club... Then, you could "marry" the dancer, thus becoming "immediate family", have a great dance session, then have your "marriage" annulled.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yeah... all you guys that are "freaking out" dancers... please keep it up. It makes it easier "pickin's" for us "normal guys"!
BTW, if you cut / paste from MS Word, make sure you use the pure text format, rather than the normal document, which puts in hidden character for formatting. (that's what causes the problem noted above)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Damn, Bones! No doubt memorable! After reading that account, >>I<< miss those girls, and I've never even seen them - or experienced their talented tongues (unfortunately).
discussion comment
17 years ago
JaBlake:
I'm not "fighting fire with fire". To me, that makes it sound like I would be going after "new dancer" out of spite. It's nothing like that. Whether I met up with "new dancer" or not, doesn't mean I care any less for Miss ATF. If I had more assurances that Miss ATF and I are going down the same path, then I would be less inclined to check out someone else. In fact, I would not be tempted.
With that said, between my last post and THIS post, I received my call from Miss ATF. It's almost like she's reading my posts! [grin]
Soo... after hearing her voice again, I'm back on the right track in my mind with her and am feeling as though things are as they should be. Previously mentioned letter will remain unsent.
You know, it's hard enough to wade through everything involved with having a "relationship" with woman, but when you add in the fact that she's a dancer AND the fact that she's almost 200 miles away, it becomes really difficult.
discussion comment
17 years ago
See?! "at least I think I've learned" indicates that you could have been wrong... and maybe deep down you think you MIGHT have been wrong. If you had the insight somehow to determine for sure, would you have regrets if you found out that what you thought was "just strip club love" was in actuality the real thing that you chose not to pursue?
Maybe that is where we differ.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I don't mind at all. If I am placing my self stage-side, then I have to expect that sort of thing to happen. Typically, it's the dancers way of generating business. If guys see her doing something sexy with a tipper, then THEY will want some of that.. which leads to more tips and dance requests.
I know that approach works, because I have witnessed such things and have nearly broken my neck trying to get to the stage!
One such incident happened several years back at Solid Gold in London, Ontario, which is a nude club. A cute dancer was on stage. She had short hair, which meant that I had very little interest in her. Anyhow, guys were jumping on the stage as they usually do, and laying down so that she could straddle them and do her little routine. She was obviously REALLY enjoying herself - you could tell because she was looking VERY moist down there. One of the guys that I was with saw that and took a liking to it, and next thing I knew he had also jumped on stage. I moved closer to get a better look - she WAS looking MUCH more inviting, as she seemed to get more and more excited. About that time, she straddled my friend and she actually DRIPPED on his cheek. I know some might think that was disgusting, but I thought it was hot... Most everyone in the club witnessed that, and watched with jaws dropping as she leaned over and licked her own juices off his face. I've never seen so many guys jumping on the stage at once. There literally, was no space left on the stage... guys (including me) were actually waiting their turn to jump on stage.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'd go with the dancer with whom I have the more experience.
Along those lines, here is a potential dangerous situation that I now find myself. You all have been reading about me and my ATF and my hopes for her, and us. Lately, the communication frequency has dropped off. Having talked with her, her reasoning makes sense (most of it is resulting from what she is going through - divorce), and she's still asking me to "wait for her", which all sounds promising. However, with all of the reading I've done about RILs, PLs, stripper shit and stripper manipulation, I have some unfounded doubts surfacing. Combined with meeting another dancer at the club, the night before my last hookup with Miss ATF, I'm having a bit of a quandary.
I KNOW my choice should be, and is with my ATF. But a nagging voice is saying "what if you are being played and you could be missing out on something else?". That something else, just happens to be a dancer that works at the same club as Miss ATF - different shifts, at least. Me and "new dancer" had a LOT of chemistry going, and it was arguably one of the hottest dance sessions I've ever had. Is there any chance I could fall for her? NO! Would I want to "date" her? NO! It was purely sexual. At the time, we talked about an OTC in the future - SHE brought it up, after I'd been hinting about it. THAT is where the quandary lies. The thought of which is extremely tempting.
If I were to contact "new dancer" and pursue an OTC with her (a letter is my only means of contacting her at this point), I have ugly visions of Miss ATF somehow seeing or hearing about that letter. I've actually written the letter (a very witty and charming letter, if I don't say so myself) and am poised to send it. However, I can envision "new dancer" thinking my letter was "cute" or perhaps she might get mad about it, either way, she might talk about and/or show the letter to other dancers. SOMEone there, might make the connection and tell Miss ATF, OR worse yet, she might see it personally.
I know, it's somewhat far fetched, but I'm on the precipice of taking that chance. It's now been two weeks since my last phone call from Miss ATF - one of the longest periods of non contact that we've had. I'm a bit worried, but I'm also a bit pissed. I'm giving her until the end of the day today... or tomorrow... and if I still haven't heard from her, the letter might end up in the mail - if I don't chicken out.
I guess one would say that I must not be in love with her if I'm considering an OTC with another dancer, to which I have no answer. I guess it's that element of doubt about how real things are with Miss ATF.... If/when she calls, I will probably dismiss the idea entirely, but in the meantime...
discussion comment
17 years ago
JaBlake:
I could be wrong, but I have a theory that a good share of us PLs that hit the clubs (and/or OTC) are shy guys at heart. I was the guy in high school that missed out on a LOT of girls, simply because I didn't ask them out for fear of rejection. Once I started clubbing, I became a little more confident (of course especially ITC). It also helped OTC, as I pursued (and caught) several "regular, non-dancing" girls for extra-curricular relationships - all of which I was quite shocked to have been able to succeed with. As my success improved, so did my level of confidence. I AM still that shy guy, but in the right circumstance, I can come out of my shell. During my last experience ITC, I'm pretty sure that the dancer I was with had NO impression whatsoever that I was a shy guy.
As for your advice, I AM enjoying the moment. I'm not the least bit worried about looking like a fool. The downside is, I have visions of her and I becoming much more than what we are today... perhaps even ending up "together". That is both exciting and scary to think about.
Limiting the damage... of course I am trying to do so, but if things don't work out, it WILL be fairly devastating.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Professor:
You obviously are new to the site. There are several of us on this site that have found (or find) themselves in that predicament, and a lot has been written about it. (you might want to read through the discussion board topics - I'm sure you will find a lot of interest there)
Anyhow, (sorry to all of you out there that have read about me and my "problems", 'cause here it comes again) I am currently "suffering" from what you describe.
Just over a year ago, I was on a business trip and visited one of my fav clubs. I arrived not much before closing, and spotted her on stage. I knew she was the only one dancing that night that I had any interest in. After her stage performance, I grabbed her and we went back to VIP. I kept her back there until closing - an hour, and asked when she worked next. At that time, I didn't have "a thing" for her... she just turned me on BIG time, and was fun to be with. I gave her my card and ask that she call me when she worked next, and she said I'll be here tomorrow night.
Of COURSE, the next night I visited the club, but I didn't see her. Disappointed, I still was able to find a dancer to have fun with.
The following night, I was heading to another club to look up a dancer that I'd had a long-term OTC relationship with - mostly business, and my phone rang... it was soon-to-be Miss ATF. She apologized for not being there the night before, but said she was there tonight and asked if I was coming to see her. Of COURSE!
That night, I spent about 7 hrs with her in VIP. We worked out a deal with the DJ to take her off the list, and we spent the time exclusively together - 'cept when she had to take a "potty break". About mid-way through the night, we were DFKing (I left the club with chapped lips... hadn't done that much kissing since high school... maybe not even then) That night, I knew she was special and I realized that I could fall for that type of girl.
The last night at the club during my trip, found us in VIP the whole time again. I was downright depressed at the thought of saying goodbye to her, I thought - hoped - that she felt the same.
To keep an already long story from getting TOO much longer, I was able to visit her at the club about once a month for the next several months, and in between, we spent a lot of time talking on the phone. After "working on her" for quite some time, I finally talked her into seeing me OTC. Since then, when I see her, it's always OTC. We meet, go to lunch, putz around town, then head back to my hotel. NOTHING sexual to this point, other than DFKing.
At this point, I should inject that fact that we are BOTH married and both have kids. The interesting twist to this is she is in the process of getting divorced (not because of me), and things aren't real great at MY house either... I could be "talked into" becoming unattached, too.
Yes, I've fallen in love with her. It's a feeling like none other that I have had in my life - even with my wife. I've never needed to be with someone so strongly... never had the proverbial butterflies just thinking about someone... never so anxiously anticipated the next time that I see her... I've confessed to her that I have feelings for her, but not gone so far as to mention the L word. She hasn't reciprocated in so many words, but during the frank talks that we've had, she has implied it. The last visit (three weeks ago), she explained that while she is still married she does not want to be unfaithful, however surprisingly she asked that I "wait for her".
Back to reality. I admit, I could be the victim of stripper shit. She could be an extremely accomplished manipulator. The fact that she's never said anything more encouraging than "I really like you", never really led me on. Especially since I also know better than to think otherwise. I've been going to clubs for 20 years... I've seen and heard everything. But still, I'm 90% convinced that it's the real deal. If it weren't for what she does for a living, I'd have no doubt.
discussion comment
17 years ago
CasualGuy: Just to clarify, when I implied that my larger tips were to impress the girls, I didn't mean that I envision her thinking "oh wow, a $20!". I merely tip larger bills to make it stand out more in their memory. When she gets off stage, after having maybe 4-5 guys ask her to come to their table, who is she going to visit first? The guy that gave her a $20, or the other guys that gave her a $1? USUALLY, it works to my advantage.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Whghlost:
No, no, no.. I highly recommend against "posting bad reviews", especially if you refer to doing so on this site. Especially since you must think the club is pretty good if you are trying so damned hard to get back in! No, a personal vendetta against a club and/or it's staff is NOT the reason to rate a club poorly.
You STILL seem to be having a hard time letting go. You have to put it out of your mind and resign yourself to the fact that you cannot return to that club and you cannot be with Paris. Believe me, I DO know how it is to have developed feelings for a dancer. Forgetting about them is not as easy as it sounds. I know that if things ended between my ATF and I, it would take a LONG time to get over her, but I also know that I would have to let go; no repeated attempts to fix the problems to the point where people suspect stalking.
discussion comment
17 years ago
EvilCyn: What does this mean for your club? I've heard that NO touching will be allowed, when it goes into effect - which I believe is yet this week. Does that mean total air dances?
discussion comment
17 years ago
It WOULD bother me... once a dancer becomes one of my favs, we never discuss money. If money is being paid, I just give her what I feel I owe. The only time that wouldn't be the case is if we were ITC and I completely lost count of the dances, then I will ask her what I owe.
NEVER, would I be asked to pay up front, though.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Well, shit! The class in Indy that I was planning to attend was not confirmed and has been re-scheduled for the week of Dec 17th. So, it follows that my visit to BBF and my OTC hookup has also been re-scheduled. I only hope that I can get down there before Dec 17th. I sure as hell don't want to wait that long to see Miss ATF!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Chandler: I recommend that you get closer to 35 when you cruise through Lakeville and Lapaz. I think you've just been lucky. I rarely drive through that area and see anyone traveling higher than 40 - at most. It's usually a good indicator when you see the locals all driving at/near 35, and sometimes under. Even prior to the 35 zones, there are sections that are 45, which are also areas to be careful. Like clockwork, I make sure to set my cruise control at 45, 35, 45 then crank it back up as I pass through the traps.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Just like BookGuy said, the stage tipping serves several purposes;
1. It allows me to get a closer look at her. MANY times I've seen a really hot dancer on stage, only to find that up close she isn't quite as hot as I thought she was. That seems to be happening more frequently, lately. (maybe my eyes are going!)
2. It allows me to introduce myself to her (and VICE versa), and gives me an indication of how much - if any - chemistry exists between us (real or imagined).
3. It allows me to get a "nose check" of her. I make sure that her perfume isn't incredibly strong - especially if I'm going to be heading home after the visit. Also, I've encountered a few dancers that were a bit too oderific at the tip rail, so she HAS to smell clean, fresh and pleasant.
4. If all of the prerequisites have been met (1-3 above), and if I'm still interested, it allows me to invite her back to my table in order to get to know each other better. Typically, I'll tip according to how interested I am in her, taking into consideration how busy she is, how crowded it is, etc. My stage-side tips will usually be $5, at a minumum. ($1 just doesn't impress tell her that I'm interested, nor does it give her much hope to make money off of me). If I'm drooling over her and REALLY want her, I will stuff a $20 - that almost always works.
Here's a good example of the tip process at work; I recently saw a brunette on the stage, from across the room at BBF (my usual "perch"). She looked incredible from what I could tell... completely my type. She was wearing some sort of a fishnet top, which was also enticing to me. I ventured to the tip rail, only to see once she turned around that she was closer to a 6 than a 10, face-wise. Still, her body and hair was enough to hold my interest. When she came over to me, I immediately caught a whiff of something not-too-appealing. I tucked a George, but did NOT invite her back to my table and quickly dismissed her from my list.
A few other things to note. If I'm spending time with a fav dancer and for some reason she must appear on stage, I will definitely tip her at least once during her performance, just to keep her thinking about me, and to make her feel like SOME one is paying attention to her efforts. (usually, this is a $20 tip)
Lastly, I NEVER approach a dancer on the stage until she has removed at least her top. I'm not sure why - I'm really not a breast man, though I DO like those things! [wink] I guess I feel like I don't want to reward her for nothing... take off that top and get a "reward"!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Chandler:
In one post you state that "all those posts about having something more going on with their ATFs must be grounded in hard-nosed reality after all." Then a little later you write "OTCs are "more like a real date than an extension of the fantasy of a strip club. Pleasurable, for sure, but all very real."
You can't have it both ways. Either there is nothing but PLs being misled by dancers and their stripper shit, or there can be more to a relationship with an ATF than business transactions.