Permanent brain damage from hard drugs

I'm glad our society never glamorized hard drug users in the media like they did for other stuff. We look at drug addicts with wariness and disgust in the USA. The people that sell the hard drugs? We absolutely love them. We can't suck enough narco or biker dick here in the USA it's just sad

Those that use drugs are stuck at the emotional age they started using, and don’t develop beyond that. Have you tried to hold conversations with a toddler? Many times having conversations with a drug user is like rationalizing with a child. In tye users mind, they believe they’re right, and they just don’t have the ability to understand adult topics because they never evolved. It’s hard, because yiu want to help, but like telling a 3 year old they have to eat dinner first before dessert, the drug user will instead stomp and throw a fit. It’s why they say yiu have to let them hit rock bottom before they’ll realize they need help. Sad when yiu see some hit their bottom and not rebound. For this, I am forever grateful to Nancy Reagan for scaring the shit out of our youth when it comes to drugs. “Just say no” turned out to be a pretty good motto.

It makes them paranoid and impulsive because of the false sense of confidence it gives them. They trust their poor decision making skills. And I notice they drink more and do other drugs more once they do meth. I'm seeing girls graduate from a few bumps of coke to using meth to get through their shift or to work doubles. Using it or crack as party drugs. But meth use is really up and getting normalized. I don't like it. And I'm seeing girls who look good admit to doing it as well. Some think because they never got addicted to coke they can do meth. But it will catch up with them. I don't like the behavior changes. I know a girl and she looks great but I noticed she wasn't getting her nails and lashes done like before. Wasn't spending money on clothes. Her money started going towards drugs and she doesn't want to get clean. She's mostly in control for now but in a year....

When I was in High School this 15 second TV commercial made more of an impression on me than anything else I ever heard or saw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FtNm9CgA6U I showed it to my kids recently in the hopes that it would be as chilling to them.

A lot of the self-defeating behavior Blah describes I don't see as being closely correlated to substance dependency. More like very common human flaws. We have to drop the melodrama and holier than thou stuff in dealing with substance dependency. We learned that lesson the hard way with alcohol in the 20s. The customs of using alcohol in diluted form (beer, wine) seem to contribute to harm mitigation. We never consider that approach more generally. Cultures where chewing coca leaves is a near universal habit don't have the problems we have with cocaine and crack use. If we turned a blind eye to raw opium smoking, maybe we'd have fewer heroin addicts. Since rickdugan is a congenital egghead, probably for the best his egg remained raw. Although the egg is likely well pickled along with rest of him.

Harm reduction techniques eventually bottom out. It basically comes down to enabling and it always goes wrong eventually

Ilb you almost accidentally made a point before you reverted to trolling. Not a very good point, but a topical comment nonetheless. Good job using that computer time wisely before you're art therapy session starts. 😉 I just can't imagine a world where opioids are easily available for purchase and consumption. I might feel differently if I didn't have kids, which is something that Ilb quite obviously will never have to worry about, but I do. I've seen the ravages of opioid addiction too many times to count and it's scary. Maybe we could do better with decriminalizing use to a degree in order to focus more on treatment, but IMO we should nonetheless continue to aggressively pursue dealers and distribution networks.

If it be trolling, at least it's targeted against creepy liquid substance dependency.

We have a lot of ideas about addiction that we don't realize are specific to our tense, hyper-competitive culture. Tobacco use is now more common in Mexico than the US. But, the most typical tobacco use pattern in Mexico is a couple three cigarettes in the evening while socializing. For them, tobacco/nicotine is not as easily addictive as it is for us. But, that may be in part because tobacco is native to the Americas, so perhaps some genetically-based protection against tobacco addiction.

Oh I forget, congratulations rickdugan on your decision to breed. The world is clearly a better place with more people like you.

In my youth, I saw enough needle users drop off the trustworthy and social ability scale to keep me away from such things. I did snort a few lines of white stuff, but the various effects told me "you don't know what's in that" pretty quickly. So, no more. Weed is fine. Natural, grows in the garden. A magical mushroom, maybe, now and then. But nothing refined, or chemically created/enhanced. They're playing with fire, and humans are part kindling.

Also remember fentanyl changes everything. Coke is cut with it. And anything synthetic off the streets pretty much has it. It's cheap and undetectable taste or smell wise. And it's very addictive

I think the continued use of those addictive substances must alter the way an addict’s brain fires. I am no neuroscientist - and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but these are highly addictive drugs, and many addicts take such continuous high doses, it simply must have long lasting neurological effects. Blah, if you are arguing with an addict who is currently using, it’s almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion and try to portray an opposing point of view. As it was said above, addicts will pause their maturity at the age when they get deeply addicted. I believe they may regress backward in terms of maturity with long term abuse and addiction. When you take a brain and expose it to such highly addictive substances over an extended period of time - and the doses are significantly higher than any human should take - the likelihood of encountering severe intellectual and emotional damage is a given. It sucks, as some addicts may have been great conversationalists prior to becoming dependent on these brutal addictions. Getting an addict to detox is incredibly difficult since that sense of mature reasoning is likely gone. These opioids are now engineered to be substances that become rapidly addictive, and overprescribing doctors have basically created lifelong addicts, who will likely never be contributing members of society again.

Drugs ruin people's health and drug induced behaviors hurt relationships. But drug addicts can still me productive. I know a man in his 40s addicted to meth over 20 years. Installs windows on high rises and is great at his job. Has kept it for over 15 years. Met a heroin addicted head of of college department who went into retirement at 63 2 years ago. A meth addicted accountant who does very well. There are cases like Dr Crackhead. And plenty of dancers with addictions who function well and look great. The real face of drug use can be anyone around you. The majority aren't zombies in front of a 7 11. When an addict feels damage to their brain and senses they try new drug combinations. Hardly any addict does just one drug. They look for the right balance. Like many girls like coke and ecstasy and then smoke weed later. It's more complex than saying drugs are bad

^ I know pothead computer programmers that swear they write their best code while high. But cannabis use in a developing brain is associated with psychosis. And college students love of Ritalin and Adderall (i.e. uppers) is legendary. But we've all seen what too much coke and meth can do to a person. I have one good friend who's snorting himself into an early grave. It's hard to generalize about the effects of any one drug, but I don't see the upside of injecting heroin.

I farted

Isn't that why truck stops serve greasy food? Cause truckers will be alone in their cab, free-fart zone, after eating?

@blahblahblah23 I would recommend you to just stay away from these people as they might bother you, make you uncomfortable or even try to harm you because some of them may do act violent. I had a long time favorite that fell prey to drugs and was a functioning addict for some time, but eventually became a crack addict and had to work as an escort to maintain her habit and was abused by other addict and drug dealers. I try to help her, but I learned that; “you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink” the proverb is accurate in this case; you can provide someone with a good opportunity to get clean, but you can't make them take it if they don't want to. Like you and many have pointed; all drugs, hard or not, have the potential to harm the brain in the short and long term, temporarily and permanently. Like Cashman1234 wrote and I quote: “These opioids are now engineered to be substances that become rapidly addictive, and overprescribing doctors have basically created lifelong addicts,” I would add that it is and has been done for profit, remember the tobacco industry bio-engineered highly addictive plants In our materialistic/capitalist society drugs are a billion dollars industry, legal and illegal. We create a social “problem” and the “solution” just to profit from it. It is done in every aspect of life; we sell fatty foods that make people fat and sell diet and exercise “systems” to loose weight. Etc etc etc The system manipulates the supply and demand of everything, creates artificial needs, for drugs in this case, and generates large profits for the drug dealers and the governments associated with the trade. Drugs almost freely flow throughout the United States, (many famous celebrities, talk openly about their use and nobody gets arrested) this free river feeds the largest drug markets on the world. “It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few.”

"Sola dosis facit venenum" "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." ~ Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim Born In 1493 Egg, near Einsiedeln, Schwyz, Old Swiss Confederacy (present-day Switzerland) Died 24 September 1541, Salzburg, Archbishopric of Salzburg (present-day Austria) All elements substances and chemicals—including food, water and oxygen—can be toxic, even lethal if too much is eaten, drunk, or absorbed. The toxicity and short or long time effect of any particular chemical, drugs in this case, depends on many factors, including the specific individual who is affected by it. I always tell my students; Taking any kind of drugs with or without medical attention, really is like playing Russian Roulette...

I never really felt too bad for drug users. Look at the people that were born severely deformed, disabled, stricken with horrible illnesses, really tough stuff. Then you got these old rock and rollers, music artists and celebrities crying a river about their drug problems. Get over yourself and tell somebody who gives a fuck. Suck the fuck it up and stoping being a piece of shit.

Over the past 3-4 years I really see many people in parts of the country and the affects of these hard drugs. I’m not sure if it’s me getting older and noticing things like this more or simply MORE people have been affected by them than decades ago. I remember the crack and needle epidemic in the 80s when I was a kid and seeing the affects of people on the street back then. That was plenty to scare me straight, and the awesome D.A.R.E. program I went through when I was in Jr High (sarcasm). If anything that program taught me about a whole bunch of other drugs I didn’t even know existed at 12 years old.

It's low self esteem and insecurities. They have an image of what they want to be but feel inadequate. The drugs make them feel better than they ever imagined they could. None of them want to be addicts. That just happens with enough use. With dancers for a lot of girls it's just wanting to stay awake. Wanting to forget problems so they can focus more on work. To overcome insecurities. Being easily influenced by others is a huge thing You can't have conversations with junkies or junkies who quit using. You can't connect on their level.

No matter what, a certain percentage of users will get addicted. A percentage of that group will have significant damage that cannot be reversed. It seems like current drugs are significantly more potent than a generation ago at the same time we as a society have become more accepting. A lot of big cities have areas that are no go zones due to the amount of druggies who are completely beyond help.

I’ve been visiting colleges with my daughters for about 3 years so far. It has been mostly middle Atlantic - northeast schools. I have seen there are many smaller cities that have been left behind due to manufacturing businesses moving away. These cities now struggle as they no longer have an industry to help them grow. The real estate values have dropped - and they continue to move lower. The downtown areas can become havens for either addicts or former addicts. If the small city is a college town, there is an uneasy mix of students going about campus, and off campus as well. The concern is after dark, as the addicts seem to be like vampires and they emerge from their darkened hovels. The big city issues manifest in shootings, robberies, car theft, and other crimes related to getting money to get more drugs. In my view, these areas highlight the way the opioid crisis has turned a percentage of our population into zombies. These folks are largely not going to return to any sort of productive lifestyle in the future. It is my belief (I have no scientific study) that the drugs have turned them from folks who had a modest job inclination towards addiction, to full on addicts - or former full on addicts who will struggle with sobriety every day of their remaining life. Their ability to reason and become productive is gone. So, these folks will end up being on public assistance and live in squalor. If they can make the jump to minimum wage employment, that is exceptional and impressive. I don’t think arguing with this type of person would be productive, as their brains are no longer functioning. The addicts share responsibility - but the drug manufacturers also share responsibility - as many folks become addicted after opioids are prescribed as pain killers.

I am worried that my twin has either permanent brain damage, or very deep brain trauma that has yet to be resolved after a decade of heroin use. She has the emotional intelligence of a child. She is conniving and emotionally destructive towards others for absolutely no reason. She loves to betray people, especially those who are doing better than her in life (which is almost anyone). She has not grown, mentally or emotionally, in any form whatsoever since before her addiction. It is actually quite sad. Also dangerous, as she is willing to throw anyone under any bus and I seem to be her favorite target. The last time I saw her, if people were around, she NEVER STOPPED TALKING. If people were not around, she'd just talk to herself. I missed sleep the night of my granddad's funeral because she was up all night talking to herself. She has been to rehab over 15 times.

Everyone I know who got into meth and opioids has had a bad go of it and it’s sad. I’ve been to enough funerals of friends who didn’t die of overdoses but died of “old people stuff” at young ages. The use of hard drugs took their toll. I don’t abandon friends who use hard drugs. But the ones I know have mostly abandoned life outside of their addiction. Maybe it’s just the passage of time but it seems like drug addiction is just getting worse.

@Nina if your sister is as good-looking as you, that may be part of the problem. Being good-looking can contribute to stunted EI, just because it's easier for good-looking people to find people who will tolerate their negative behaviors. The success rate for rehab is 10%. At some point people have to consider the alternative of harm mitigation, to be come a functional addict, at least as a first step. Impulsive behavior lead to substance abuse, and substance abuse leads to impulsive behavior, it's a cycle. It's hard to know which is the chicken and which is the egg.

They're still the same people underneath it all and have their lucid moments. After and during addiction it's not about being impulsive it's about being desperate. With the psychological part of an addiction being yhe hardest the problem is most don't get the proper psychological care. And people Stay in the same environment. Not by choice most of the time.

^ “ Impulsive behavior lead to substance abuse, and substance abuse leads to impulsive behavior, it's a cycle. It's hard to know which is the chicken and which is the egg.” I agree. There is often more than one thing going on and it’s hard to untangle the threads.

"@Nina if your sister is as good-looking as you, that may be part of the problem" She is not. In fact, her looks have declined with her drug use. All of our extended family agrees it's been easier to tell us apart as the years have gone by. Thanks for the compliment though ❤

Ilbbaicnl do you realize how creepy it is to talk about someone's looks when something serious like their self-destructive habits is being discussed.

Opioids rewire the pleasure receptors in the users brain. Hard to undo that, but its not permanent and can heal itself slowly over time.

At a minimum, drugs, including marijuana and psychiatric medications, destroy someone's psychology. They loose their center, they don't learn to live in their own skin. SJG

Treating addicts like pariahs is part of fhe problem. They're people. But for your own sanity you need to cut them off. You won't help them and all they'll want is money.

In My Organization there will not be any mood altering drugs, including marijuana and prescription psychiatric medications. SJG

Except for PCP; LSD; Mescaline; Cocaine and Crank (crystal meth) we didn't do drugs when we were young. We just drank 2 racks and smoked some weed. Opps. smoked crack a couple of times, just to see what the big deal was. Great organization SJG, but the Salvation Army already exists.

We are nothing like the Salvation Army. I cannot stand the Salvation Army. We don't deal with people who are in Recovery or who are Seeking Salvation. Rather, we deal with people who can convince us that they are 100% finished with whatever involvement they may have had with drugs and alcohol. And we have a long formation period before any of our people reach the senior level where they have some say in the governance. SJG

Nina, I am sorry to hear of your twin’s struggles with addiction. It must be very difficult to see your twin in the grips of drug abuse. You are a successful, educated, intelligent, and beautiful woman - and you have a great future. For other family members to see the contrast in you and your sister, it must be very difficult. Rehab can help some addicts, but after so many attempts, it might never be effective. It sucks to see someone who bounces in and out of treatment. Sadly, it may never work to keep some folks clean.

The big problem is that even after Rehab or jail addicts return to the same problems same people and same environment they were in. You can't heal in the place that made you sick. And drugs are everywhere. In Vegas you see professionals coming in for conventions and the first thing they want is coke. Bachelorettes offering sex for drugs. Or anywhere young girls wanting to lose weight with coke. With shit like lean it's a lot of bored rich kids using parents credit cards to buy it on instagram. A lotbif fake drugs out there that are just fentanyl. Drug use is pretty normalized.

I agree Blah. If a recovering addict returns to the same old crowd after rehab, I think it can be setting them up to fail. When you go back to the old temptations - and possibly see your old addict pals - it can be very easy to fall back into old habits. Those same dealers know how to find their customers, and they know how tempting it can be when they offer some free hits.

And no one talks about it anymore or you get laughed at. But weed really is a gateway drug. People start off with it. Then other drugs don't seem as bad. The idea that something is also just a social drug or gets you a better high desensitizes people to the thought of drugs as being bad. A lot of really young people associate being an addict or a junkie with middle aged or older people. Add to it people acting like toxic traits are cute or funny. A lot of young addicts don't think they're addicts. What shocks me is how nitrous oxide is just as casually used as weed or alcohol. Or meth and crack used as party drugs. Drinking otc cough syrup like lean. These people already act like they have brain damage. Wait a few years.

Weea a a gateway drug? Inane comment. People usually smoke cigarettes and then drink, making cigarettes the gateway drug.

Tell us about your crack use

These things are all gateway drugs, especially the ones you can get with a doctor's prescription. They now have gummy bear psych meds for kids as young as 5yo, and they are essentially the same as street methamphetamine. It all works by convincing people that they can and should use chemicals to regulate their emotions, instead of doing the much harder work of learning to live within your own skin. With my Pentecostal Daughter Molester, he started out in adult life on Alcohol and Street Drugs. But then he listened to campus evangelicals and his addiction to Street Drugs advanced in severity to Born Again Christianity. And then with a nervous break down he listened to white coats at our County Hospital and his addiction to Alcohol advanced to Psychiatric Medications. None of what he did to his daughters could have happened without these two sever addictions, Born Again Christianity and Psychiatric Medications. I spent a long time convincing the DA of this, meaning that this was not an isolated case, it was an ongoing criminal conspiracy to abuse children coming from his church. The DA's Office told me that he would have a long time to think it over. Well the problem is that most State Prison inmates fully submit to Born Again Christianity because it earns them a certain amount of pity. And then of course or government is licensing these doctors who prescribe the psychiatric neuro-toxins. I did my very best to convince the court that this was not an isolated case. Child abuse designed to break the child and based on the idea that they have an innate moral defect is a central component of their religion. SJG I cannot stand the Salvation Army https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKdmdCtPtnQ

I would never want to make light of the horrors of addiction. I've seen it firsthand in a family member in the past. I also commend all the thoughtful reasoned responses in this thread, but am I the only one that read in the OP: "a totally unique worldview... get mad/annoyed at you for disagreeing... appear to be having a conversation with themself... can't even tell how stupid/ridiculous/crazy they might sound." and thought, "Gee, a couple of the members of this board must be meth/heroin addicts."

Meat72 posted above, "Those that use drugs are stuck at the emotional age they started using, and don’t develop beyond that." Mark this down because it is rare. I am in agreement with Meat. And maybe now reading Meat, people can see why My Organization will not deal with people who use street drugs OR prescription mood alternants, OR with people who believe in Recovery or Salvation. But then Meat also goes on to praise Nancy Reagan. Well guess what, Nancy's entire adult life was influenced by drugs, I think prescription tranquilizers. excellent book: Patti Reagan Davis https://www.amazon.com/Way-I-See-Autobiography/dp/0399137483/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2LMPBIHXEL3PJ&keywords=the+way+i+see+it+patti+davis&qid=1641329351&sprefix=the+way+I+see+it+patti%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-1 And also note that in response to Nancy the Partnership for Drug Free America was started, and that is entirely paid for by Alcohol, Tobacco, Soft Drink, and Prescription Medicine monies. SJG Gary Moore - "Red House" - HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTRtL-OcPQ

^ nobody read that.

^^^^^ !!!! Shailynn's mom still make him wear the extra tight jock strap so that his voice won't change so that they can keep doing shows for the West Texas Christian Glee Club. SJG Ann Wilson - Beware Of Darkness @ George Fest 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pphBiAYzzY

"can't even tell how stupid/ridiculous/crazy they might sound."

"can't even tell how stupid/ridiculous/crazy they might sound" Well, I think some people just have a life experience which is very different from the straight an narrow. This is just how things work out. I think the OP might be a little bit dense too, IMHO. SJG

^ Well I'm can't sign on to the notion of being a "pervert" just because I want to fuck a hot girl. That's a biological drive. I also don't generally do that stuff in a LD room - just not my gig - but I won't criticize those who do. But to the broader point, yes, many in the vanilla world would consider our discussions of sex with strippers to be crazy or outlandish. I will certainly never be talking about any of this with other parents at kids' birthday parties, or with professional contacts, of with other family members, or with church members, or...etc., etc. Not that many of those guys don't fantasize about alternative action, but most are too risk averse to ever pursue it. They feel like they have too much to lose and/or are afraid of being judged by others.

I disagree with Blah! I’m not looking for borderline prostitution in a strip club - I’m looking for blatant prostitution in a strip club! When I’m searching for a stripping whore who will take a champagne bottle in her back door (always point the corked end away from the ass) - that might be a bit of a niche - but I consider it artistic and creative - as I don’t drink champagne - and I consider it recycling (a booze bottle to a sex toy).

OP comes across pretty callous sometimes. I understand having frustration with hard drug users because I have some in my family. Granddad died a few months ago from liver damage caused by hep c caused by intravenous heroin use (sharing needles). I get frustrated with addicts but I try to have at least a little bit of compassion, even though it's difficult sometimes. It can be a touchy subject.

Old men pretending to be rich while talking about Nickel and dining hookers .... After seeing some of the clubs they claim to love the most I can't even pretend to take them seriously. No they're not normal

Rick, you know that those partnership for a drug free America ads are nonsense. Blahblahblah23, I guess it is just how the population is. In San Jose T's (now long defunct) a dancer approached me, sat down with me. And she was lovely, hair, coloration, makeup. But all she could talk about was her drug habits, and a lot of other stuff I would classify as just senseless drama. She talked about dram with her mom, and how a police officer had pulled her over just so he could look at her bouffant. And she has ongoing trouble with the DMV. She showed me this little piece of aluminum foil which she rolled up to make her hash pipe, and explained how when the management searched her locker they would not notice it. She explained about how other girls were trying to fix her with cocaine. She had lots of chemical habits. I asked her why she does this. She said, "I can't do this job unless I have a buzz." So I told her, "Then you shouldn't do it." This was an encounter which convinced me that a lot of these girls have some screws loose. This one was lovely though. And I don't mean for dances, I mean start kissing her, feeling her up, and smooth talking her until the shoulders drop and she yields. Then jizz her the first time in the back room, and then take her home with you to continue. But at this club, nothing like that could happen, because of our LE. It did seem like a waste to me, such a pretty girl, but destroying her health and her mind. SJG

I used to believe the "drugs are bad" propaganda too. The only thing this insane "war on drugs" has accomplished is more death, more crime, militarized police, militarized drug cartels, delusion about the causes of addiction, and making it ridiculously more difficult for the people who actually *need* and will benefit from these drugs to actually get them. "We're sorry we're making this drug that will let you live without pain so hard to get, but we just can't take the chance that someone, somewhere, will have fun with it."

I say that drugs are bad. But the War on Drugs is completely the wrong approach. Hard to regulate something well if lots of people still want it. Lots of other things we don't regulate. SJG Ann Wilson - Like a Rolling Stone (Dylan Cover) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENuV-vY2AmM

If you want to end drug use end the social factors leading to it

^^^^^ And how exactly, in a free country, would you suggest doing that? SJG

What's with all the negativity around The War on Drugs? I'm a fan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVh6XTwWhMY

I watch your video. The war on drugs was mostly just a race war. This is how Hoover Institute fellow and former San Jose Police Chief Joseph D. McNamara described it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_D._McNamara SJG

Focusing more on mental health would be a huge step in fighting drug use. More programs for kids. Community development.

N-word users callous? Ya think? Talk about out-ricking the ricks.

We have been involved with fighting the war on drugs longer than we spent in Afghanistan - and we’ve likely spent much more on this war. I don’t think we’ve found any level of success either. We may make progress against one substance, but then another substance takes over. There are two components to drug transactions - and both aren’t relenting. The demand continues to be high, as we have no shortage of addicts. The supply keeps coming, as it is profitable to the makers. Unless we can stop the demand, this will not decrease. Once demand drops, and it becomes unprofitable for suppliers, it won’t end.

"N-word users callous? Ya think? Talk about out-ricking the ricks." Who used the n-word? What was the context?

You found it.

We waged a war on drugs, and drugs won.

We have waged a race war and made lots and lots of people into criminals for nothing. SJG

How would you suggest that we make demand go away? SJG