Are clubs just getting deader and deader over time?

Hard to say but I am surprised when I go to a dive club on a Friday night and it’s dead. How are these people staying business? We are seeing more clubs close then open so maybe overall it’s just consolidating. I say consolidating and not dying because some clubs I go to are always popping. Go to some Manhattan clubs any day of the week forget it. Packed. Monday, Tuesday night looking like a Saturday night crowd.

Out here in Portland it ebbs and flows. Where one club seems to get more dead, another club gets busier. I don't see an overall trend one way or another. And I've been an active clubber for years now, with the exception of only the last few months. I've been a regular to about three clubs with no discernable trend and also I have the same observation at at least half a dozen other clubs I've only been to a handful of time. For every club that I see close down, a new one opens up.

As far as mileage out here it's been the same over the years. On average it's two way contact with no touching pussy. It's fairly high, though. Stick shifting is common and there's always a lot of pussy on crotch grinding. With the exception of a few one-way contact clubs that enforce it, this is the Portland standard mileage.

Most manhattan clubs are one touch touch or very little touch. I think every club off the top of my head was $20 a song. Then upsell around $750 (Most places) unmonitored half hour VIP. Not a whole lot of middle ground options but they are there at Scores and Larry Flynts. And daytime Ricks prices are cheaper, think it’s like $350 VIP for 30 min during daytime. Two way touch Lerouge Lounge and Headquarters (Good for me) I was gonna make an article going in more detail about the whole borough but right now function is down.

The large clubs are doing fine in my part of the world.

@blah I see strippers hop clubs here all the time, but I don't think they consider it exhausting. It's a perk! There are always options out here for both PLs and strippers which is a plus. Note also that I've seen strippers stay loyal to a club too. I think Portland is a good city for strippers overall. There's less pressure to need to compete with extras and there's almost always a club you can work at. Plus the hustle is low and the business is consistent. Strip clubs are a normal everyday part of the community here.

Yeah definitely some shark dancers in there. But then again a lot fucking suits too. But that’s probably true for any big city. Found a lot of cutthroat dancers in LA too. If I was recommending a dancer go somewhere I would avoid the Sapphire (there 3 sapphires) on the Upper east side. That was the most hot girls I’ve ever seen in one place and it was incredible seeing smoking hot girls standing on the sidelines making no money. Too much competition there. If I was made of money that would be my spot though.

—>”On average it's two way contact with no touching pussy. It's fairly high, though. Stick shifting is common and there's always a lot of pussy on crotch grinding. With the exception of a few one-way contact clubs that enforce it, this is the Portland standard mileage.” Really? I had the impression that kind of stuff would be considered higher mileage there. And something like half the customers at Sunset didn’t bother touching. (Despite bouncers being totally cool with that behavior) And most of the customers who touched asked permission ahead of time. —>“ If I was recommending a dancer go somewhere I would avoid the Sapphire (there 3 sapphires) on the Upper east side. “ If they are still doing their free house fee the first two weeks, that would be the first place I’d be trying to get hired at if I was in the area.

^^^Woah I never heard of that. That must be why they got such crazy good talent. Damn. That’s another thing though the clubs might be doing well but those house fees are a mother fucker. Unfortunately I don’t know much about them other then they are higher than other areas.

The SF clubs have been very slow for a few years -- noticeably slower than (say) 10 years ago. The transition to employees has been a further nail in the coffin. So, special circumstances for SF, but absolutely it's been a slow grind downwards.

"Really? I had the impression that kind of stuff would be considered higher mileage there. And something like half the customers at Sunset didn’t bother touching. (Despite bouncers being totally cool with that behavior) And most of the customers who touched asked permission ahead of time." ^ @nicespice Yes. Really. And I don't consider myself lucky in the mileage that I get. In my experience that is my average. Also I know there's a higher level out here than what I get myself because I compare my notes with my fellow local PLs and I have personally stopped strippers from trying to do more to me. To me what you experienced at Sunset was the low side of average. And over the last seven years going there I have been with about ten different dancers and have gotten that same mileage - heavy two way, no touching pussy. Same thing at numerous other clubs out here. LOL the only other logical explanation is that my dashing good looks gets me better mileage than most. 😝

Last 10 years have slowly gone down. Last 5 years, clubs all over the country have had a big decrease in total $$$ made. Still money, but it’s nothing like years ago!!

South Florida has a lot of clubs - I'd say overall the SoFlo SC-scene is pretty-healthy - kinda hard to say if it's increased or decreased but if I had to choose one it looks like it's increased - overall it feels as if we have more clubs than ever-before instead of less, and feels like there are more-quality clubs (instead of just one or two good ones and a whole-bunch of mediocre-ones). It does seem that there's more-mileage in clubs these days and I think that may be keeping the industry alive given how much competition there is for the sex-industry dollar (internet-porn: cam-sites; sugaring; internet-escorts,etc). SCing is often an expensive endeavor and seems clubs have to offer good ROI in order to get wallets to loosen-up for the avg custy - for many PLs the more they can get in a club the more they are willing to spend - seems areas/cities with loose-enforcement SCs may be thriving and more # of SCs.

Two-way-contact is the norm in SoFlo including WPB - and extras are very common but more-so in certain clubs. I would say many SoFlo clubs have good foot-traffic but I am not sure this actually equates to good $$$-potential - I get the impression the SoFlo custies are not as good spenders as other areas - part of it may be SoFlo COL is pretty-high compared to wages/income in the area, and there are other things to do for fun that are less expensive than strip clubs - there also seems to be a lot of dancer competition in the area and the Cubans seem to often out-hustle and/or supposedly undercut the competition.

Serenity sin you are fucking hot. That all nude pic damn I just want to mount you. Florida is next on my list too many good clubs down there. I don’t see strip clubs going anywhere just less of them. I think the clubs closing are just catching up to the spending customers right now a little bit. Also wasn’t there another topic I think it was a papi topic but a lot of the younger population are in debt and housing costs are so crazy in some of the big cities it’s hard to have a lot of spending money available with them. Maybe a better financial decision to jerk off. But then you look at Florida, that’s like the land of the old people of its dying there too, then fuck maybe SCing is done for one day fuck I don’t know.

At the clubs I frequent, the business seems steady. I frequent the supposedly “non extras” clubs, but I tend to get FS every time. I do not think that most are getting such, but who knows ?! My clubs are all midwestern (MO, IL, KS, TN).

"Are clubs just getting deader and deader over time?" Borrowing a football analogy, they say when you've reached a certain level of mastery the game slows down. I'd say the same applies to the hobby, from either side. Is there anything more tedious than having to sit through someone trying to run a game on you that's actually a rerun you've seen a hundred times? Maybe the clubs aren't "deader" but they're less interesting now? To the question, where I club I see fewer causal customers but more regulars than I used to.

Mileage tends to increase over time--until politicians and do-gooders step in and stop it.

Clubs in the Baltimore area are definitely deader (including the Block), more expensive ($30 lap dances are the norm) and there is more mileage. Some of that higher mileage may be personal expertise going up from spending time in clubs and on here, but no denying things are slower. The change has been evident over the last 3 plus years or so. What used to be one of the hottest club in Baltimore and in the top 20 nationally ranked on this site, when we had those top 100 lists, is Players Club and it’s been circling the drain for a few years now. Gonna miss that place but it’s doomed. Same thing for Hustler club and Gold Club Not sure how the owners pay the rent.

I wish it would decline at my favorite club. Yesterday at Follies there were 15-20 guys standing in line when they opened the door at 12:20PM. I was first in line and waited almost 30 minutes because they were 20 minutes late in opening.

One thing to note with Manhattan clubs is I’ve heard the gorgeous dancers can be Russian. It may be difficult to break into a Russian dancer dominated club. Maybe Muddy can provide more insight regarding those clubs? In terms of NE NJ - there are clubs that have decent business during the day - and then are very busy at night. There are those other clubs where it’s just dead during the day. A few regulars and dancers on their phones. I’d venture most busy clubs offer more dancers and more mileage (and groping). I’m respectful of dancer limits - and preferences - so I’m a bad example of what clubs allow.

You would think in this political climate of misandrist, white man-hate, that the strip clubs would be booming because it's one of the few man spaces the sjws and pc police haven't completely invaded and destroyed. I think the "sexual revolution" "liberating" women did more harm than good to the strip clubs. Strip clubs have to compete with civilian hos giving it away for free, porn, hookers, tinder and sugar babies(hookers with major gps really). As blah's attitude shows, you arent guaranteed anything at a strip club and there's a chance you could get a stripper with gps. If you just want a nut, porn is free. If you need a guaranteed lay, a hooker is a sure thing. If you want the fake relationshit or a "companion" with some sex, a sugar baby is available. But what does a strip club offer that you cant get from one of these alternatives?

Blahblah said..."So with Manhattan can I not be touched unless I am making 100s? I can't stand fuckers trying to touch me at 20/song. Don't have patience for that these days now that I know you can make a lot w/o it." Hell yea. You could dance st Babydolls Dallas! They got strong mixed drinks!

I can't speak for clubs outside my local area (Los Angeles) but I think attendance and average PL "spend per visit" here has been steadily declining for the last 10 years. Many factors could be driving this: 1. The "average" guy just has less disposable cash to spend in a club. Unemployment is low, but the average wage for the available jobs is low and those with jobs are seeing smaller raises year after year. All while living expenses are going up. Lower disposable cash means less consumption of dances. 2. To compensate for lost per-person revenue, the "average" club is raising prices for everything, parking, cover, drinks, and dances. Higher prices mean reduced demand. 3. At the same time, the "average" community is less tolerant of clubs that provide extras, so the pressure on LE to increase enforcement activity is growing. Less "quality" of dancers and dancers means less demand for their services. 4. And the "mix" of customers is skewing away from older guys - who have cash. Younger PL's (particularly Millennials) are going to a club to "hang" with their friends - including their dancer friends - instead of going to get a lot of dances. So they buy a drink, chat up with each other, and maybe get one or two dances for the novelty of the experience, not to get off or LDK. They could (and probably do) get a similar experience for the same money at a hookah (that's smoke, not sex :p ) bar or a local Starbucks. I have asked dancers about this and generally hear comments like: "I'm getting fewer dances per shift and my average take home after tip out is lower." In clubs near me, 5 years ago a dancer could usually take home $400-$1000 on an average shift. Today, it's more like $200-$500.

> Thanks, this is all helpful. I feel like strippers and club staff/owners/mgrs often have some kinda agenda or tend to exaggerate... This is hard to gauge because so many girls are obviously lying with bad stripper math. In low/medium COL areas, I am supposed to believe you make 1-2k a night...but you have trouble with rent, an iphone4s that is shattered as fuck and then will discuss how you've made so little today? That isn't directed at blahblah, just saying the type of comments/alleged income I've heard girls say in clubs is laughable. I would hope the women here on tuscl are more honest when chatting together. And I know there are some girls who can do very well consistently. But I totally agree that dancers and I assume owners/managers want to highlight the IDEA of making tons of money - at your own hours. Some people will have that crazy day and then get the high again and believe "I could make $3k everyday! Disregard that I average $300..." That aside, clubs feel less crowded compared to the past ~10 years. I'm mostly focusing on parts of Texas in that time.

I would think it'd be hard to peg-down dancer earnings -not only can there be good and bad days in terms of custy foot-traffic/spending, but just bc some particular dancers can clear $X+ doesn't mean most other dancers will - I've been in many clubs where there seem to be many dancers that have a hard-time selling dances even if they may be pretty-good-looking

@blahblah most people lie about their income why should dancers be any different, one point to consider don't go by the cost of living in any particular area, I'd find someplace I like, and get established there. It's much easier to get established someplace, once you've been successful anywhere.

@blahblah I didn't think you were taking a jab and I totally agree that those numbers are way low for somebody in LA. My comment was focused more towards the distortion of numbers some girls give. That has to fuck with plans to travel or relocate for you. @PC agreed. Let's kick off an argument about how these 1% dancers are ruining the country for the 99%!! /s

If Elizabeth Warren gets elected all dancers will clear $500+/shift - it's only fair

^ lol

Blahblah said..."So with Manhattan can I not be touched unless I am making 100s? I can't stand fuckers trying to touch me at 20/song. Don't have patience for that these days now that I know you can make a lot w/o it." Hell yea. You could dance st Babydolls Dallas! They got strong mixed drinks!

Where I frequent (mostly west and central PA) clubs are noticeably deader. Been declining for several years IMO. Club attendance and dancer quality are much more hit or miss.

What's wrong with Vegas? Tourists spend more on average than your generic local strip club customer. For the same reasons and additional ones, I've heard New York City is good; lots of financial executives who don't have a lot of time but have a shit ton of cash they can throw around. DC also has lots of politicians who probably want to remain discreet.

Clubs prob facing competition from gals off SA. POP can be less with some dem specially housewife whores.

As others have brought up....with the availability of free porn , tinder, camming, SA - the average guy is not going to spend $$$ on lame air dances from a disinterested dancer and some low iq goon watching the floor like a hawk to make sure cutomers following "club rules." Im happy these rip off joints are struggling and going under and lazy entitled dancers incomes are adjusting to reality. The easy money days are over for women who expect to get paid 500+ a night for shaking their ass 5 feet away from their customers lol. With that said....extras-friendly strip clubs will do just fine as will your vegas style strip-club/night club hybrid concepts.

i think even hong kong ain’t as busy as it was a few years ago. my guess that some customers are scared away with the cartel murders. and prices are a bit higher. i’ll be there again in an hour to research the subject a little more.

@Jascoi Definitely keep us posted!

On the whole, from my travels I would guess that things are up. But we have some on here that live in areas where the strip club scene is drying up, so they project that as some indication that the same is happening everywhere when it certainly is not. For example, in my area, it definitely ebbs and flows, but on the whole the club scene is fairly strong. This area is growing by leaps and bounds and we have a ton of contractors, construction workers and others all looking for places to spend their hard earned dollars. It is certainly stronger than it was 3 or 4 years ago. In a place like NYC, where strip club fortunes are very much tied to how the stock market is doing, the clubs are hopping now as the market has been booming since Trump was elected. But there was a time, not too many years ago, when the stock market hit the toilet and then stayed stagnant for quite some time. During this period, shit went to He;ll in a hand basket in the NYC clubs. Conversely, an hour north on 95, the CT clubs are suffering due to the departure of a lot of big employers and affluent residents. I don't know have enough deep intel about specific areas to provide any useful advice other than a warning about Manhattan. Those girls making a killing in the Manhattan clubs are doing so by selling expensive VIP rooms. Sure they also sell $20 LDs, but those don't fatten your wallet when you start each shift $200 in the hole (house fees, DJ tip, House Mom, makeup girl, etc.). Muddy was right on the money about the cost of those VIP rooms and, at those prices, you'd better believe that guys expect to leave them a few cc's lighter. If contact is a problem for you, then you might want to seek out other options.

Strip Clubs as a business are on life support due to demographics. Youn people, raised on internet porn, don't like the intimacy of the scene. Thats why making it rain is popular: No contact, but you look like a "star" lol. Strip clubbing in its present format is a well to do white guy thing. Dying off. 93% of all cigar manufacturers in business in 2003 are gone. Golf courses are closing. Steak houses are closing: all well off white guy things. The clientele is dying and not being replaced. Just like the race track; just like baseball; just like all the other examples I stated.

@skibum: The simple fact that the number of clubs in my area has grown in the last few years belies the notion that you can lump strip clubs in with recreational pursuits like baseball and golf. Sure younger people find golf and baseball to be extremely boring, less people smoke cigars and pipes now and culinary tastes are indeed shifting in some areas, but naked girls do not suffer from any of those problems. IMHO the bigger challenges involve: (1) population shifts of affluent residents which leave behind stationary clubs, such as what's happening in CT; and (2) local governments in some areas who are doing everything they shut them down and/or zone them out. But in places like FL and TX, which have both large population gains and more relaxed governmental bodies, they are still thriving. Indeed, just look at RCI Hospitality's most recent earnings reports, which serves a lot of growth markets and is reporting year over year growth in same club sales.

RCI's stock ticker is RICK.... coincidence, i think not WCG

I do sometimes wonder how much young dudes' brains are being brainwashed in these ultra-liberal colleges and by #MeToo to where they are made to feel partaking in the sex-industry is being-complicit in the exploitation of women

Detroit and Miami are kind of in their own league and they get talked about to death here. Texas is hopping, but there seems to be a lot of ebb and flow with girls and managers moving between clubs. Austin is not bad when it comes to dance mileage and extras. Dallas and Houston have more to offer than Austin does, but I wouldn’t quite lump them in with Detroit and Miami either. As for my part of the Midwest, I’m pretty sure the clubs around me will all be gone in 10 years. More and more young guys who aren’t the kind who have legitimate disposable income. More and more girls looking at their phone or drinking with their friends all night, hoping to God all they have to do is go on stage and a bunch of guys will “make it rain”.

Industry insiders insist that it is a dying industry. If so, one has to ask, what is taking its place? I feel that the issue is just alcohol. Public attitudes continue to sour on alcohol, and especially on drunken drivers. I feel that the growth section of the industry is in the Membership Clubs. Very hard to regulate. Mostly anything can go front room, back room, or walking a girl right out the front door. SJG

^^^^ That would make for a better world! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKLnmMacEB4 SJG

On the other end of the spectrum. I read a couple of reviews today griping about dance prices at Sapphire Las Vegas rising. $40 or 3/$100. Tho some girls were experimenting with $25 dances too. That price structure seems like a growing trend. The main exceptions seem to be Austin and (from what I’ve heard) NYC and that’s more because of management clamping down on behavior. And in Austin, not completely successfully. My guess is clubs were busier during the golden days I never got to experience—but there are just enough spending customers coming in who are buying higher priced dances and VIPs. As far as no touch, from the brief conversation I had with one dancer while I was applying to a club, I do suspect there’s money at the the two south Oregon clubs I’ve mentioned before. And dance prices are I believe $25-$35. Because those clubs are the only ones for many miles and she herself said so. Just gotta have patience with their excruciatingly slow hiring process. 😭 Like having to wait a couple of weeks for a text asking if I can come in for a dayshift, long after I had assumed I was just simply rejected with a bullshit answer. And at the other club, I didn’t even bother applying because I had to call at 7pm and ask to speak to a manager to *schedule* an audition. Personally, compared to that bullshit I’d rather be allowing customers to grab my ass to their heart’s desire. But hey once you’re in, it’s probably a good spot, and that kind of whack hiring policies do probably help keep the potential high mileage hoes flooding those clubs.

I like high mileage hoes! SJG

^^^^ That's why I liked SF pre-Deja Vu, and its why I've always liked our underground circuit. In this later most all of the girls are there to hustle for OTC, and they are lots of fun Front Room as well. SJG

Minneapolis is less busy than it used to be.

**Oops one of the places would be better described as “central” Oregon. Completely derped on my geography there. 😣

nicespice, do you think club patronage is dropping off? I think little by little it is, and this is what industry insiders say. My view is that this is because attitudes continue to sour about alcohol. But that there is a growth sector in the membership club type of strip club. SJG

I think overall club patronage is dropping but it’s not dead. But there are customers with money, but you have to work harder for them. Leading to more inconsistency than the glory days? I do think the days of getting into a good gown club environment where you can provide some kind of low mileage GFE and hustle by selling champagne rooms where customers will just keep buying multiple hours on end. (Like apparently they used to back in the day) is going by the wayside. That being said. I don’t think all clubs are devolving into whorehouses. Heck, I heard that Men’s Club San Anton is, at the very least, becoming a more expensive whorehouse? Ditto with complainers or Flight Club on this site. I’ll have to ask to confirm whether or not that trend is continuing. But I know before the rise of champagne rooms, the clubs were a place where dancers took their outfits and stage sets more seriously. I think it’s coming back full circle with strip clubs increasingly adopting night club concepts. Casual customers go to clubs after hearing media notions of making it rain and popping bottles and it would do well to fulfill that party experience. Maybe it’s the clubs I’ve been in, but lately I’ve been more motivated in wanting to actually get better at stage stuff. Just trying to figure out what class to sign up for in that. After all, GFE experience stuff by a lonely average joe who wants a low key experience can probably use Seeking. Or for no touch GFE there is camming from sites like streammate. For extras, there’s the escorts and clubs that are whorehouses. But I think there’s plenty of customers not seeking full service. That being said, I think mileage is a cat that’s just out of the bag. Doesn’t help that it seems the white customer base is a shrinking trend. Idk if I’m just biased cause of my choice in customers/clubs or because of my own race but it seems Mexicans (especially the construction industry kind) and Indians/Asians (especially the software engineering kind) are the customers who spend the most easily.

Well, insiders say that they don't want to open more clubs, because the revenue numbers are dropping. They read what comes in from the Point of Sale Systems, and they are especially looking at alcohol as the key indicator. And then it is hard in most places to open more clubs, zoning restrictions. This is what screws up San Francisco. Still seems to me that the Membership Club is the growth area. These cannot sell alcohol, but they can go BYOB or No Alcohol. These kinds of clubs tend to be max mileage, though they don't of course advertise this. My county has dropped from 7 clubs to 5 clubs, and the buildings were demolished. But we have an underground circuit which seems to keep on going. And the more underground it is, the more that goes on. The most underground will be something which does not even have any kind of a business license. No limits in a place like that, 'cause it is all already illegal anyway. Interested to see what effect San Francisco's new DA makes. Could be that something which combines the best of both an AMP and a Strip Club goes. Or it could be something like the old Pink Diamonds, a Hooker Bar becoming like a strip club, and with a seamless interplay between Street Hookers and Bar Girl / Dancers. SJG New San Francisco DA: Boudin descends from a long left-wing lineage. His great-great-uncle, Louis B. Boudin,[8] was a Marxist theoretician and author of a two-volume history of the Supreme Court's influence on American government, and his grandfather Leonard Boudin was an attorney who represented controversial clients such as Fidel Castro and Paul Robeson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin Boudin was born in New York City.[1] His parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were Weather Underground members.[2] When Boudin was 14 months old, his parents were arrested for murder in their role as getaway car drivers in the Brink's robbery of 1981 in Rockland County, New York.[1][3] His mother was sentenced to 20 years to life[4] and his father to 75 years to life for the felony murders of two police officers and a security guard.[5] After his parents were incarcerated, Boudin was raised in Chicago by adoptive parents Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who, like his parents, had been members of the Weather Underground.[6] Kathy Boudin was released under parole supervision in 2003.[ Both parents Weather Underground Members. Both served time, father still serving time. I wonder what his views are on P4P and strip club mileage and FRMOS's?

also, GFE is really an escort term, and what it means is DFKing. SJG

Gown Club? Starting with more coverage, more like old style burlesque. start right here: https://youtu.be/7_37-0ScCbw?t=1661 Full movie good, book is better. SJG

I have no idea who wants to sit down at a gown club with low contact and spend hundreds. None. These are customers that probably went to cams/tube sites to some extent. But even that said...extras are NOT necessary for having a good day from a PL. So I guess I sorta see it.

Well usually the women get competitive at strip clubs, so if there are not strictly enforced rules, they start to go to contact, front room, back room, etc. Our local clubs do have strictly enforced rules. But having been in places where it is not this way, I see what happens and I love it. Unless there are uniform rules in an area, clubs will all go to higher and higher mileage. And if the patronage drops off, then they will get divier!!!! Not going along with the extras concept though, I say that FRMOS, then Back Room FS are the way to go, followed by OTC. We hear of some crack downs some places. But I believe that everywhere else the median mileage is creeping higher and higher each day. :) :) :) SJG

@blahblah down here the clubs will schedule an audition for certain days or times, I don’t know of any clubs that allow walk ins seems to me that would be very disruptive in a busy environment. And if I recall correctly there are certain managers that are designated as hiring managers so you need to schedule for their convenience

I'll try to answer bbb23 earlier question about Tampa clubs, mainly the nude ones. First of all Tampa has a lot of clubs, so the crowds get a bit more diluted. What I've noticed in the last several years is that the peak SRO weekend window has narrowed. Meaning that things don't really pick up until after 1030p to 11p vs 9p to 10p in earlier years. So with the same number of customers spread across more clubs and a 1 hour shorter peak earning window, in 1 sense Tampa clubs have seemingly less customers. From my POV, SRO nights are no less crowded than that of several years ago. My take is that while Tampa may not be an easy money gold mine (except Bucs home games and college bowl games), it's not dead either. Mons Venus may be your style, with being a lap dance factory kind of place. Extras don't happen there, but basic 2 way contact expected. MV well known for having flexible hours. Not sure about auditioning customs there, but at 2001 across the street, they do have provisions for dancer inquiries on their club website. Hth…..

heaving, GFE really means dfKing. Its one of the best ways to start getting under a girl's skin. SJG